Dennis Oz:

Welcome to Remodeler Success podcast, where we dive into world of remodeling and we are learning a lot of, we are just discussing all these, our topics, just bringing you a lot of word of knowledge. Today I’m so excited because we’re going to talk so many great things about also home remodeling, we’re going to be talking about real estate also, because my guest speaker today is, is a jewel. So, uh, I’m sure that you’re going to enjoy the conversation here. I don’t want to steal the storm, so I just wanted to introduce him today. PK Kelly, welcome to the show.

PK Kelley:

Thank you. I appreciate you having me.

Dennis Oz:

Oh, you’re welcome. So could you please introduce yourself?

PK Kelley:

Yeah, so, uh, P. K. Kelly, I, uh, kind of had a very weird transition from the, uh, military to where I am today. Um, Not necessarily the easy path, uh, but it was, uh, it’s been been a good journey, and I’m glad to be here, and I enjoy, uh, definitely enjoy what I, what I do, and, and all things real estate so.

Dennis Oz:

Yeah, it’s great. That’s what I’m gonna ask you, actually. You were an army ranger, and then you just made your way to where you are right now. So, how did you do this? I mean, what was the story behind that?

PK Kelley:

Well, I mean, do you want the cliff notes version or do you want the long version? It doesn’t really matter, just tell me what you want,

Dennis Oz:

you have a podcast, right?

PK Kelley:

Um, so I, I spend a lot of time now, uh, working with veterans organizations, um, in my free time. Uh, but I do that because I had assistance when I was transitioning from active duty to civilian life. Um, it’s, it’s definitely 1 of those things that requires some mentorship, uh, because it’s not an easy journey, uh, and part of what I talked about with other people today, other business owners is, uh, create your team.

And, uh, and have a solid 3 to 5 people around you that are not necessarily in your industry, but one’s maybe a finance guy, one is a lawyer, you know, that you’ve become close with, that you can have as a mentor for, for different things, and they can give you really solid, unbiased advice. But it took that for me, and it took some hard lessons.

Uh, and my transition was from our army special operations to executive protection for very large company. And then I became a police officer and because you don’t make any money as a police officer, that’s when I got into, uh, remodeling and, uh, really got my career started in the hardest part of it, which was historical homes.

And that was in Northwest Arkansas before I moved back to Texas.

Dennis Oz:

Yeah, we’re going to talk about that too. Let’s talk about Orange Diamond Consulting Group. So, what are the services that you provide over there? Just to be able to give some sort of like additional ideas to our listeners

PK Kelley:

here today. So the, the primary things that we offer, um, and the, the really the outside of the real estate, like the, the core stuff is, uh, we offer, uh, pre construction planning.

So I am not a fan of contractors or any construction business, but mainly contractors and remodelers going in and offering free estimates. Um, I’m not, I don’t believe in it. And I also think that if you can add. 60 to 100, 000 or so in revenue, if not more, um, why not do it? And so, the, the free estimate thing, the, at some, at some point, somebody is paying for that free estimate.

There’s nothing free. And so, and, but there also, you don’t get enough time to spend with the potential client to understand, all right, what, what tile is it? What countertop is it? What cabinet are you going with? All of those things matter, and in a free estimate, you can’t provide that. There’s too many unknowns, and then customers wind up getting unhappy because of change orders or whatever the case may be.

But in pre construction planning, we narrow all those things down. We work with them through a design process. And we provide 3D renderings, 2020 renderings. And then from that, they get a complete scope of work and a price. And then we work with partners that are other general contractors that the homeowner can have any of our partners come out and and price it based on everything that we’ve provided.

And that. Uh, reconstruction planning also comes with the timeline from start day to here’s the day you finish, but it’s, uh, the timeline you can overlay on any calendar as long as you start on a Monday. Right. Everything else will work out.

Dennis Oz:

Right. Let’s talk about this timeline. Starting from, let’s say, someone just say, Hi, I’m interested in, I’m starting a project.

So how would you design that process? I’m asking this question because there are a lot of new listeners here that are even planning to start their business. So I just wanted to give them some sort of Your two cents and golden nuggets about the process.

What’s the best way? What’s working? What’s not working? What’s not to try? What do you think about that?

PK Kelley:

Yeah, I think the best thing is to come up with a really good question, uh, for the, for the client, whether it’s an investor or a homeowner or whatever. That’s another sector that I work with, work with often as investors.

So I’ll do the pre construction planning for them before they take ownership of the home. And so then on day 0, they’re ready to start demo and then they can flip it and meet their timeline. So the, uh, the best thing starting out is to have a solid group of questions. And then from that, that group of questions.

You can narrow down what exactly what they need and what they want and in the needs and wants are always going to vary. And so what’s more important to that client is going to based on their budget is important. And so you basically utilize psychology to, um, this industry, but 70 percent of your job is, it’s psychology and, and figuring those things out because the homeowners and the clients, they don’t necessarily know what they want.

They see an idea on Pinterest or on, uh, HGTV, um, or something like that, but they don’t really know. Uh, cause they don’t know if it’ll work in their space.

Dennis Oz:

HGTV is giving a lot of misinformation, that’s what I believe. And just for the show purposes, they’re pumping up to people for different reasons. I mean every time that I see these kind of stories, it’s not like the ideal situation when you’re just meeting with an HGTV, uh, I would say, influenced homeowner, right?

What do you think about that? Are they the best ones or not?

PK Kelley:

Well,

I think that what they put in people’s minds is, uh, they give, they give off a lot of these perceptions that, that the homeowners and our, our customers, uh, claim to, or they believe it to be fact and reality, and it’s just not. And that’s probably the biggest thing. And I talk about that almost every time somebody brings up, Oh, I saw this on a show the other day.

And I just. I like kind of take a pause for a second with them and say, forget anything that you’ve ever seen on TV, especially if it was timelines or pricing, you know, the ideas and the way things look after the fact are fine, but they don’t see, you know, the people coming in and doing the punch list.

They don’t see all those things. on. They think that it just goes in magically and it looks great and there’s not necessarily these bumps in the road along the way.

Dennis Oz:

Right, right. That happens. So thanks so much for that explanation. So I’m sure it says so for all other remodelers around here, especially when they’re facing a client after having some sort of HGTV experience with that client.

So thanks so much for that explanation. I would like to ask your secret sauce to make your business.stand out the competition. What’s your strategies to just to make yourself more visible? What kind of marketing strategies that, that you, uh, implement to just bring more and more business to you?

PK Kelley:

Well, I mean, I think that there’s a, uh, whoever the face of the business is, you almost. In this industry, because you’re going in and out of people’s homes and things of that nature, like creating a personal brand, almost as important as anything, but also what what is your offering that’s different and, uh.

What is it a value that you bring to people that’s completely different than anybody else? I like to offer knowledge and information because the old thing goes new knowledge of the power well, if I’m willing to share information and Provide that to my clients before I even meet with them. They know that I’m serious for one They know that I know what I’m talking about And they know that I’m not afraid to provide them information, or I’m not trying to withhold information from them and they appreciate that.

And so that goes a really long way with people,

Dennis Oz:

right? Thanks so much for that explanation because we have so many people that are asking. Sometimes we just. Talk with some industry, I would say pioneers. They don’t even need to run any kind of ads because their name, their ad, their own, like, because you’re talking about the personal brand with the decades, it doesn’t happen overnight.

Folks. If you’re just thinking about it’s going to happen overnight, it’s not going to happen overnight because you need to create your raving fans around you. They need to like appreciate what you do and your work needs to speak out on behalf of yourself. So you cannot tell people how great things that you are doing, like designs and implementation, and also like creating spaces. But at the end of the day correct me if I’m wrong, you believe that is your work is just needs to talk on behalf of yourself. Is that correct? Those what’s the best way to create that brand?

What do you think about that? I

PK Kelley:

think there’s a couple of best practices to doing that. And, um, I’m not a big fan on just. What I call general networking meetings. Um, I think networking meetings in the afternoons are a waste of time. And, um, so if you’re going to go to networking meetings, go to the ones in the morning or go to a lunch networking thing, but don’t waste your time going to, uh.

You know, a 4th, like a happy hour, uh, networking event people aren’t there to work psychologically when they leave the office or their home office or whatever it is they’ve checked out for the day. And so, um, mentally, so they’re not really there to work. So I think in, in this space and remodeling or design or construction going to chamber events are critical.

And then from those chamber events, you get to know, uh, real estate brokers, people like that, that can put you in touch with real estate investors. Uh, people that nature and you put on again, offering something of value, you go to those real estate, uh, agency, the brokers, and you are what you put on a class and you showcase your expertise and you provide those real estate agents or those and their clients, the investors, uh, with.

Knowledge and information and now you just gained a following and from there you potentially gain customers out of that room.

Dennis Oz:

That’s that’s a great

PK Kelley:

strategy. That’s what’s worked for for me and I think that that’s one of the one of the best ways to do it. You have to be able to get in front of people.

Uh, in person. Thanks so

Dennis Oz:

much for sharing that. We are talking about people who are just really, your raving fans when you create the environment around you, folks, right?

That’ll be great for you. That’s going to make your marketing even much easier. That’s what I’m thinking. When you have a good brand, strong brand identity around that is going to be so easy for you. You don’t need to promote yourself in Facebook and Instagram. We are talking about that a lot. PK, we have this idea. So if you’re going and buying a luxury car. These luxury car salespeople doesn’t really sell you the car. They just talk about the talk about like, what’s the offering, you know, the, the features of the car. When you go to an economy car something around, just like, you’re just going to use your general purposes just to commute, then they try to sell you.

So if you just create your environment, that people look at you like a Lambo, like the Lambo of your industry, on your own field. That’s where you are just having little less conversations about the pricing. And also people will be giving you that kind of respect when you are putting the designs out there.

 Just wanted to go back to your projects. What kind of remodeling projects do you think that is most interesting? What really excites you when you have yes, I have this one. Let’s go after this one. What really makes you put you that kind of excitement in you when you have that project?

What type of projects we are talking about here?

PK Kelley:

I would say my top three overall are, uh, Are historical homes is there always a challenge and I enjoy that. Um, so old homes, number 1, um, and I would say full, full home remodel where, you know, wall coming out, something like that. Uh, is there’s a lot of those are a lot of fun.

And then, uh, then just kitchen and bath in general, because there’s. There’s especially in bathrooms, there’s only so much you can do, and that can find space, but figuring out how to maximize that space. Is sometimes tracking and that’s fun. It’s a challenge. Uh, it’s kind of like, if you look at every.

Kitchen or every bathroom or every house, but look at it as like a tiny house. So, take your space and then mentally shrink it and then figure out how to. Think outside of the box to get the most out of that small space and that’s kind of how I look at it. And, uh, you know, there’s a lot of questions now and questions that I get about.

Well, why would I pay for this? Uh, I could do it with a I on my own or or whatever. Well, that’s true. Hey, I can provide you some things, but they’re not going to provide you the, uh, the things that the organizers in the cabinetry or the size of the cabinet and all that different type of stuff. It’s not going to tell you all that.

So you have to be willing to. Uh, it’s going to take a human element to create all of those things together.

Dennis Oz:

Great, let’s talk about AI a little bit. How do you utilize AI on your day to day work? You, do you use it for just sort of generating ideas or how do you utilize it?

PK Kelley:

So I utilize, I utilize it daily, but I, uh, I will do it to get a layout of a space.

Oh, I’ll use it for that. It’s really handy for that because of the amount of time that it saves. So, uh, a software similar to MagicPlan, something like that will, it’s great because you can take the MagicPlan layout, upload it to 2020, and it just saved you a lot of time. And so that’s, that’s one of the biggest things.

Um, and then from there, um, I would say saving time in other areas so I can spend more time on what I enjoy.

Dennis Oz:

Right. Yeah. So this is one of the best things that AI just offers us how we are utilizing is we utilize it a lot for lead generation to when we are running some marketing campaigns for our clients, because, you know, some of the problems that the complex problems, it’s just giving us another angle, just like asking, yeah, the actually the, the model itself it’s much more detailed.

I mean, when you’re putting an algorithm out there, it just thinks about the, even like a 1 percent of probability. And then give you like the idea just to fix that hole, but we are not there yet to just like the naturally replace human being with, especially for the complex tasks.

You’re right. So like, there will be a sink base over there. How AI is going to know what’s going to be like, is there going to be a filler over there? Or like, was like a refrigerator panel next to it. So there are some, yeah, there are some details that I don’t say it’s not going to be, it will never happen, but it will happen eventually, but we are not there yet with AI, that’s what I see.

Uh, let’s talk about these challenges. You are, because you’re talking about historical homes, old homes. What was the main maybe a couple of main challenges that you face when you are, uh, remodeling these historical homes? What is that number one problem when you just start a project?

PK Kelley:

Yeah, I would say, uh, just knowing the critical facts of the home. So, yes. Um, what’s your plumbing like? Is the whole is the plumbing for the whole house going to have to be replaced? And it depends on what are you looking at it from a designer standpoint?

Are you looking at it from a remodel or a G. C. Standpoint? Because there’s Liability in what you touch. And so if, if you go in and replace certain aspects of that home, but she didn’t replace the plumbing. And then in order to get it up to code, you actually have to place that iron pipe all the way to the street.

It gets really expensive. So homeowners have to know that upfront. And so I think really good due diligence on the front side of that makes for. A much easier process moving forward. You know what you’re getting into. If you don’t, then, I mean, it’s a can of worms.

Dennis Oz:

Right. Do you use a checklist or something, some sort of like you create the checklist to understand what’s in there?

What’s not right. Let’s say when you just walk in, what’s that top three on your

PK Kelley:

checklist? Uh, uh, the foundation plumbing and electrical. All right, so we learned for his first historical

Dennis Oz:

homes. Exactly. Exactly. I’m talking about historical homes.

You said foundation plumbing and electrical and electrical. So those are,

PK Kelley:

they’re all three equally important. So,

Dennis Oz:

so those are the most important things folks. So, even if you’re planning to do some sort of historical work over there. You don’t want to go that much of expensive. You don’t want that scars on your faces.You don’t want to down and cry after seeing that thousands of dollars extra cost in front of you. So just be really cautious when you are navigating with those historical and old homes that might be, cost might go up so, so easy. So just be aware of that. All right. apart from historical homes, I’m talking about general remodeling projects.

 just wanted to give some ideas to our listeners here, for example, about the qualifications. How do you qualify a prospect? income level could be one of the things, uh, maybe their lifestyle could be one of other things. Maybe it’s where they live, how far you’re away from them could be another things.

What is your, I would say, qualification standards? How do you qualify these people when they first show up?

PK Kelley:

Uh, usually, uh, it’s just through what, what do they want? Like, they didn’t come to me for, for nothing. So they want something. So what is that? And then, uh, or, or need. And then, uh, so that’s the number 1 thing.

And then I’ll, I’ll get into, you know, budgetary type issues. And so do you even have a starting place? A lot of people don’t even know. And so if they don’t know, then I provide them a sheet and say, well, go through this. Here’s a document. You can use the template and it’ll give you a very good rough idea to go from there.

But those are the 2 big things. Um, and then timeline. So those are really 3, uh, 3 big vertical areas. And then we. Back it out from there.

Dennis Oz:

Do you see a difference between a, like a project that is needs to be done on a short term basis or longterm basis? Would you prefer the, the ones that is urgent or would you prefer the ones that we have little enough time to study or how do you look at the urgent projects?

Some of the, uh, expert in the field, they don’t even want to look at those urgent projects. And how do you feel when someone comes in hurry?

PK Kelley:

Um, You know, it’s kind of like that old saying, everybody has a price. And I have a good friend of mine that he’s, he’s an expert at this in particular, but he’s one of those that loves the immediate, you know, somebody calls him and he’s on top of it, but they pay for it and it’s expensive, but, you know, you get a really, you know, an expert at what he does and, and it fastened and it’s, it looks great, but I don’t want, you know, I want something that the start time is.

30 days or later, um, so like most investors, if they’re coming to us, they’ve got a, you know, they’re going to close on that home within 30 days. So we have to move pretty quickly on those. But again, it’s all about in any type of operation, whether it’s military or a business, if you have a process in place and you can replicate it.

Then you can, you can take these templates and overlay them on the different projects and it simplifies it so you can take any home the same way and, you know, for investors, I’ve even got it to where I give them options, so they don’t get to just choose from everything I give them here, five types of baseboards, there’s five, you know, they have certain things that they can choose from streamlines everything.

And then that way they don’t have to, not starting from scratch, it’s not, you know, trying to, I do the same thing with homeowners when it comes to narrowing down what they want. I don’t let them, homeowners don’t get to go to the showroom, to the tile showroom, because it’s a waste of time for them. And I say that because it’s just like sensory overload.

And this sounds terrible but it’s kind of funny but I, I often will tell people that. A homeowner going to a showroom because they’re really meant for designers and contractors. It’s, it’s like a dog going to the dog park because there’s just so many, uh, textures and things they’re seeing. And It’s all around them all at once and they just can’t the minds can’t process it,

Dennis Oz:

right?

right, and We have to narrow it down. That’s the thing right because before Starting and replicating it So narrowing down is really important. So you’re also making some References to the army experience that you have the same thing. Yeah.

PK Kelley:

Well, and the other big one is the military’s backwards planning process.

So you, you have your, let’s say that this project has to be completed by. Uh, Thanksgiving Day, families coming in town, whatever it may be, right? I just, I’m using that because it’s a pretty good example of an actual hard date in this industry. And so, Thanksgiving Day will really give yourself a buffer, so back it out a week.

And then, if it’s a, depending on the size project, then you need to back everything out from that. So really, that project, from planning to completion, really needs to start in June, July. Right. Really. You know, from if with the homeowner and that’s when it really needs to start and especially depending on the line of cabinet cabinetry or if it’s fully custom.

You’re having a local guy build it. There are ways you can speed up certain things and, and, uh, that you have to know what they want in order to be able to say, okay, well, here’s our options and, and I like taking the pressure off of me and giving the homeowner like, Okay. This is, this is their decision, because if, if, and I, and if I explain the pros and cons, and it’s their decision, because it is, it’s their home, they’re paying for it.

Then, ultimately, whatever happens with that decision is not on me, it’s on the homeowner. Right. That’s a, that’s also a liability thing.

Dennis Oz:

Exactly, that’s liability, definitely. And it’s a smart way to do it. Exactly how you just framed it out is a really smart way to do it. Uh, not all of our listeners has Army experience, but you are learning from the great source, folks.

So, just tune it in. So, you know, you’re learning from the great source. Uh, well I was looking at your background. You also have franchises. You’re running franchises, right? I

PK Kelley:

did. I had, uh, franchises in the kitchen and bath specifically. But

Dennis Oz:

That’s what I would like to ask. Uh, you, I think I saw like you were running two franchises and What did you learn from that experience?

And, uh, let’s say, how does it shape what you do now? Do you have any kind of experiences from there that you convey from there to do what you do right

PK Kelley:

now? Yes, absolutely. So I think franchising has its upsides and its downsides. Um, ultimately, I think that. As a, as an entrepreneur, you have to be able to be flexible and and be able to change and, um, if it’s your organization, you can make those changes and adapt much faster than you can if it’s you’re not in control.

Right? So it’s a, uh, it’s one of those things where. If you want to be, be able to be flexible and adapt and ultimately the, you know, the, the key to most entrepreneurs, like they’ll tell you that they have their hands in a lot of different cookie jars, because if one’s down and the other one may be up, and so that’s sustaining something else or their lifestyle, whatever it may be.

Um, but that’s, that’s how it’s done in franchising really hinders you from that. And so you. You’re sucked in to dedicate everything to one thing versus, uh, being able to be, you know,

very, you know, flexible with your time to where you can spend time on other stuff is that’s where the demanding side of it comes. And, and then, uh, on top of it, it’s, I tell people that you’re going to do franchising, be very careful and look at what’s in your documents, because if you, if you’re already in this industry and you have resources, trying to.

Say source material or or whatever they might have stipulations in that where they require you to do it from certain places and Understand that they are making money off of that. So that’s why they’re forcing you to purchase it from there Well, if if it’s a six month lead time and it’s hurting you and hurting your customer experience Because of all those things you probably don’t want to use the supplier but if you’re forced to you need to you just need to be able to Be very savvy in contracting and, and have some clauses to where, okay, well, if my lead times from the ones you want and are forcing me to purchase from go outside of a 60 day window, then I’m going to enforce the clause that says I can go purchase elsewhere, you know, because that’s, that’s really the only way it’s going to work.

Um, because if not, then you’re going to run into problems that you have no control over. And your customers are still going to come to you and demand answers that you’re going to be able to provide. And so, um. That’s five lessons I’ve learned the hard way, was able to adapt and change some things and make it work.

And so, but now I just, I prefer to be able to be very flexible and do different things and, and things like that. That’s

Dennis Oz:

great. Thanks so much for sharing this one. Um, you are, um, here in the industry for a long time. Just want to, uh, ask you this trend question because it’s a really, I would say.

Controversial topic. Some experts, they don’t really go after trends and other ones, they just go with the trends, what the fashion is, how do you see trends in the remodeling world? Sometimes we go to a trade show. And different trade shows, we see different appliances, cabinetries, even like design styles.

How would you deal with these kind of trend changes? Do you follow them up? First question, if you do or not, why not

PK Kelley:

or why? I don’t. And the reason I don’t is because when you are

working for in somebody else’s home and somebody else’s space, there’s two things that. We have to understand we have our own personal preferences and things that we like and and but it’s not our house. So our preferences and our likes don’t matter. And, and, uh, and then so that’s important off the bat.

And then, uh, 2 is there’s a couple of questions or things that I, because women, especially, but, uh, I’ve even had it from men, they will say, Oh, well, our friends, don’t. Recommended this, or I was having lunch with Susie the other day, and she was talking about what she did not. And when they start going down that path, I tell them.

It does not matter what anybody else says and the reason why are they paying for it or are you paying for it and all that matters is your, your happiness and what you’re doing for your home and then I asked them questions about how long, how long do you plan to live here? Is this a short term thing?

Are you prepping to sell? All of these different things matter and or if this is your forever house, then do whatever you please, you know, but if it’s not. Then I, I tell people you need to stick with what’s timeless. Don’t even think or look about trends because if, if you’d say you’re going to sell and you’re prepping to sell in the next two to three years, but it’s a trend, then when you go to sell in two to three years, it may have soured.

So stick with what’s timeless and, and you can do that by, you know, like the, your background right now is, is timeless. It’s like, that’s a look that’s going to be here to stay. And, um, and so that’s, that’s kind of the route that I prefer to like the realm. I like to stick in is the timeless space. Great.

Dennis Oz:

Thanks so much for sharing this one. we’re going to wrap up the session today, but I have a couple of other couple of questions that has been left. One thing that I really wanted to know about, especially when you’re looking at your background, who is serving in the army and also working in the industry, have franchise experience, this and that, so you have a wealth of knowledge over there.

What would be your A piece of advice that is someone just starting today. How would you give them some sort of advice that is going to enlighten them along the way and just make their things a little bit easier when you’re at least the mistakes that you made in the past when you’re starting your business, what do you tell these people?

PK Kelley:

I would say, and this is actually a great way to end it. I actually teach a class on this. Some work for the military and military folks get this, but. Civilian folks can as well. It’s, it’s, it’s a very simple process. Um, but I teach a class on, on mission, mission statement writing and goal setting. So write a mission statement, whether it’s for your business or for you personally.

And then after you write your mission statement, set short term and long term goals. And with those goals, those goals should align to the mission statement. And if you’re hitting those short term and long term goals, then and everything is aligned into that mission statement. There’s no way that you can fail possible.

And so, if you, and then you again, take that backwards planning process. Here’s my short term and my long term goals, your short term goal to align with your long term goals. And then you backwards plan, you say, okay, here’s the actionable items that I need to do to reach this goal. And then, The next one.

And so it’s the biggest thing for success is, is there’s really, there’s really three things. And I’ll, I’ll make saving actually coaches on this kind of ironic that agents retired. But it’s dedication, discipline, and consistency. So, hard work. And consistency are really the, the two biggest things and discipline are really the biggest three things that I can say for, uh, somebody starting out or, or setting that, those things and just going from there, because if you’re hitting those things, it’s going to, everything’s going to start going, looking up for ya.

It’s just the way it is.

Dennis Oz:

Here we go, folks. You hear from the source. It’s not easy to find that much of experience, because when you’re talking about blended experience, people just take one of the best things and the mistakes that they made in the past, and they learn from the mistakes and their next experience will be much different.

That’s why you have to learn people like PK Kelly, just because. the things that he already put in place was the problems that he faced in the past, probably the problems that you’re going to face in the future. So it’s always the best way to learn from these people is just tuning in, just, feeding yourself like the podcast channels, like ours.

Sorry. I have to promote our podcast too. I just want to say thank you for today’s all these like ideas and sharing and everything. That was really great. if anyone has some sort of a follow up question what could be the best way to reach out to you, just to let you know that we have 10, 000 followers may have exposed to 10, 000 people.

Let’s, let’s keep that in mind. Is that your website or email?

PK Kelley:

I would say, uh, LinkedIn is the best way to get ahold of me. So it’s, it’s PK Kelly and then, uh, Senator Ornstein, I’m in a consulting group and that’s the by far the best way to, uh, to find me. And, and I more than happy to answer some questions.

And, um, I do offer services virtually as well.

Dennis Oz:

This is great. Thanks so much for your contribution today. That was another episode of Remodeler Success Podcast folks. We’re going to see you next time. Goodbye.

PK Kelley:

Thanks for having me.