Dennis Oz:
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Remodeler Success Podcast, where we highlight the real stories and real strategies behind successful remodeling and construction businesses. I’m so excited for this special episode because today I’m hosting an amazing person with proven results and decades of experience in the industry. I’m thrilled to have him here. He built a company that has been running really strong since 2006, earned awards and recognition as a top 500 remodeler, not once, but twice — and that’s the most important part.

It’s really interesting, and we’ll talk about that as well. He has worked on hundreds of projects across kitchens, bathrooms, additions, and full-house transformations — you name it. Yes, we are going to be talking all about this today. Let me introduce you to Patrick McAneeny. Patrick, welcome to the show.

Patrick McAneeny:
Well, it’s a pleasure to be here, Dennis, and I appreciate you reaching out.

Dennis Oz:
Oh yeah, of course. Well, Patrick, I just wanted to start by hearing a little bit about your background, because when you look at your background, I would say your industry resume, we see amazing things that have happened over the years. Let me ask you, what inspired you to start your company, Patco Design and Build, back in 2006? I’m sure there are some defining moments or habits that really helped you grow the company from the start. Could you share a bit of your background with us?

Patrick McAneeny:
Yeah, so, I grew up in a house with my mom and dad. They did some house flipping and things like that. My uncles were carpenters, engineering-type minds, things like that. They would always put us to work on the weekends. I grew up in a 1918 bungalow, craftsman-style home, with all the oak built-ins and things like that.

As any teenager would, I wanted to get out of the house as fast as I could, so I joined the military. I did four years serving with the U.S. Army Rangers down in Fort Benning. I got out in ’91, came back here, and it’s funny, I originally thought I’d be Patrick Patio and Garden because I was always self-motivated — get up early, work late, like a farmer living in a little city called New London.

I just always wanted to be my own boss. After I left the military, I started doing just like anybody else — cutting wood, mowing lawns, and worked my way into meeting Ed Windham of Windham Custom Builders. He started me off with roofing and demo. They would call me “the bull in the china closet” because I wasn’t really allowed in the house back then. I was just super strong and would break things.

But I’ve always been motivated by leaving behind a legacy — creating amazing things that will last long after I’m gone. That’s how I got into designing for myself, custom kitchens, bathrooms, and additions. I’ve built 20 to 25 houses, all of which I designed. I learned early on doing some framing work for a company locally called Bra Builders. You start seeing things, and you get tired of asking for permission. When something didn’t work, I’d say, “This doesn’t work,” and finally, I just started making decisions because I’d been doing it for over 30 years.

It’s been a long time, but I’ve always been motivated by creating and making people happy — that’s what we’re after.

Dennis Oz:
Got it. Well, of course, there are many different types of projects that you specialize in — whether it’s kitchens, bathrooms, sunroom additions, basements, or full home remodels. The remodel world is vast, and the types of projects are endless. What do you think is the most profitable? And also, what’s the most entertaining for you to work on?

Patrick McAneeny:
I think it really comes down to the process. So, when someone calls me, I’d say 80% of my business is from referrals, a little from job signs, and some from associations. When they call, I meet them, get an idea of what they’re looking for. Very seldom do I work with people who already have blueprints or have worked with an architect. I go out, take some measurements, and do a little interview — kind of see if they’re worth my time. I’ll give anyone 12 hours of my time.

Then, I go off and create a concept design, and I come back to present it. In our industry, the design process is typically a two-step close. You come out, interview them, then go back to create a concept drawing and rough budget, and I’ll sit with them again with the renderings on my laptop.

To answer your question, it’s the built-ins and customization that I love the most. That’s what excites me the most about the projects — creating these unique, one-of-a-kind spaces.

Patrick McAneeny:
You know, the glass, the barrier-free, the tile, the niches — forget about it. So pretty, you know, that’s really where I get my bang. You know, everybody talks about it, it’s almost like watching the amazing pool guy down in Florida. He always gives them something special, and so do I. I don’t like it, even if I get paid for it or not. I’m like, it’s gonna be special, you know, if that makes sense.
Of course, and that’s the goal, 100% — that’s the objective.

Dennis Oz:
Great. Also, I just want to talk about this. Well, you can’t say yes to everyone, and there should be some, I would say, you have to filter some people. I’m sure that not a lot of people are the right fit for you, and sometimes you’re not a good fit for the project too. You have to sometimes say no. I’m sure there’s a qualification process, and I’m sure once you qualify yourself for the project, maybe the next step is qualifying the prospect. Maybe, you know, there should be different things you’re looking at. How do you make sure that these prospects are a good fit for your business?

Patrick McAneeny:
Well, first, you want to make sure they’re not crazy, right? We don’t mind a little crazy, but crazy good, not crazy bad. That’s during the interview process. And, you know, teaching a new guy to learn this stuff is tough because, after a certain number of decades, I don’t have to think about it anymore. Does that make sense?

In my youth, I would remodel my success systems, pay for all these trainings, sales, and all that studying. But at this point, to a mastery level, you don’t even think about it anymore. But ideally, how do they live? What are they looking for? Can I make it work in the house, based on the property, the lines, the setbacks, and the code? I’m not an architect, but with the level of experience I have designing for decades, I can handle it.

Do they have a problem I can solve? The most important thing is doing some preliminary price conditioning. I understand that something like this — the type of bathroom we’re talking about with the built-ins and barrier-free, relocating services — can run between $50,000 and $65,000. Is that something they’re thinking of?

For a remodel like that, it trends more towards luxury, or at least getting closer to that, rather than being a simple remodel. A typical project like that could run between $600 to $700 per square foot by the time you’re done with tiles, electricity, relocation, and everything. We protect their home access, and we bring a different package to the table. Every floor is covered, surfaces are protected, and we take care of dust mitigation and those types of things. It’s well-planned.

The process matters because when you meet them, they get excited, sign the contract, and are all elated. But then the remodel starts, and I tell them right upfront, “You know, John, Mary, this is really gonna suck. We’re going to come in and destroy your house. We have to break it before we can fix it.”

Especially if we’re doing a master bedroom, we’ve got to go in through the front door, up the stairs, down the hallway, through their sleeping space, and then destroy a bathroom that’s right there, or vice versa, the kitchen.

I understand, and I think one of the most important things is doing what you say. But definitely, don’t be shy about telling the folks how long the project will take. You should allow yourself at least a two- or three-week grace period because then you look like a superstar when you beat it. When things go wrong, you can say, “Well, we’re right on target.”

For my business, typically, we’re four to six weeks from agreement to permit. I say “permit” because that gives us a lot of leeway to start. We typically run four to six weeks, sometimes up to 16 weeks, depending on the project. I have a thousand dollars allocated for my production manager per job, per week. We usually run two to four jobs at a time — three is ideal. We have the one we’re working on, one in the pipeline, and one closing. That’s how we’re geared to work.

And back to the prequalification thing, when you’re saying yes or no to a job — I saw a lady a week ago. She wanted one cabinet and some other small work. I told her, “To be honest, I’m a terrible handyman, but I’ve got a great person for you.” I gave her the contact, because for the kind of work we’re bringing to the table, it costs so much to get out of the gate.

Dennis Oz:
Yeah.

Patrick McAneeny:
I think I answered that question.

Dennis Oz:
Yeah, exactly. That was a great golden nugget. Thank you so much. The reason I’m asking you that question is that we receive a lot of questions from our listeners, and along the way, we just see where remodelers and most construction company owners really struggle. This is one point they always mention — saying yes to every request. And just like Patrick described, we can’t say yes to everything.

So, Patrick, just like he said, he’s not a good handyman. So if you’re just looking for a handyman job, folks, you have to say no. Because as much as you say no, you’ll get more yeses in the future. Thank you so much for dropping this golden nugget, Patrick. That was really important.  You’re focused on what’s most likely to pay you properly.

Patrick McAneeny:
Yeah, right.

Patrick McAneeny:
That’s it. You’ll waste a lot of time chasing the little things when you should be focused on the macro, you know, or whatever. I think that’s the most important part. Who should I be taking my time with?

Dennis Oz:
Yeah, that’s right. Because people will run you like crazy.

Patrick McAneeny:
Right, right.

Dennis Oz:
Definitely. I also believe you have to keep people a little more motivated and pumped in the beginning. How do you keep that confidence going throughout the project? How do you let them feel confident before the project even starts and also during the process?

Patrick McAneeny:
I think where we differ from most is that I personally do the design, the framing, and I can completely render it so they know exactly what they’re getting.

It’s very exciting. The meetings, you know, I’m building a 1,700 square foot design studio and office on my property. The shop’s almost done, so that really hurts because every five days I have to write another $5,000 check. I’m like, “Ah, this has gotta get done!” But, you know, because of my capabilities, I go into the house on appointment number two.

I’m like, “You got a TV? I got a 20-foot cable.” I sit down, and I say, “You know, this is what you asked me for, but this is what I came up with — using their concept.” And I think one of the main things is that at that appointment, I’ll say, “I’ll be more than happy to continue. It’s $2,000, $5,000, $10,000 — whatever the design fee is, right?” And then also, if they move forward with my design, it becomes part of their deposit. So, in other words, I’ll do it for nothing, but I won’t do it for nothing, if that makes sense.

And the way we’re scaled, you know, I’ve got eight to ten guys I work with directly every day, and a plethora of major contractor subs — electricians, plumbers. I stay dedicated to those teams. Every Friday, they get their check. I’m not, you know… If I had to say anything to the rookies out there, or people with five to ten employees, it would be: “Don’t borrow money. You don’t need to. And make sure that the job is funding the project.”

Especially with big bank jobs and houses, you do that during the interview process. You ask, “Where are you getting your money? How are you paying for it?” And then when they say, “Well, why do you need a $200,000 deposit?” I say, “Because it’s your job to pay for it. My job is to build it and focus on the outcome, the masterful application we’ll bring to the table with our team of phenomenal craftsmen. Your job is to fund it. You gotta make the design, pick everything out, and we’ll go to no end, but you have to pay.”

Dennis Oz:
That’s right, that’s right.

Patrick McAneeny:
Exactly.

Dennis Oz:
Yeah.

Patrick McAneeny:
So, that’s how it goes.

Dennis Oz:
Got it.

Patrick McAneeny:
Yeah, you’ll waste a lot of time chasing the little things. When you should be focused on the macro, you know? I think that’s the most important part. Who should I be taking my time with?

Dennis Oz:
Yeah, that’s right. Because people will run you like crazy.

Patrick McAneeny:
Right.

Dennis Oz:
Definitely.

Patrick McAneeny:
I also believe that you have to keep people more motivated and pumped in the beginning. How do you keep that confidence going throughout the project? How do you make sure they feel confident before the project even starts and during the process?

Patrick McAneeny:
So, I think where we differ from most is because I personally do the design and the framing. I can completely render it so they know exactly what they’re getting.

Patrick McAneeny:
Everybody related to the company is wearing the Patco shirt, the trucks are all 100% Leonard, and the job sign goes up right at signing, on the job site. The site is kept clean, neat, and organized. So, if I had to be number one, it’s, you know, signage. The job sign, signage for the trucks, signage for the t-shirts.

And of course, I’m breaking the rule right here, right now, but my back goes, your… um… and then, so that’s number one. And then, maintaining a good website with a lot of job pictures, right? And that’s a constant battle. I’ve been working on that website, and I’ve got my kid… you know, I’m trying to bring him into the business for longer than I care to admit, but he’s making progress.

So, I got him back here working on, you know, the things that I really don’t have time to focus on, which is like making little before-and-after things. So, the website, the job signs, those types of things, you know, in today’s world. And I’m constantly posting on Facebook and LinkedIn, communicating with a lot of interior designers, especially if you do niche and custom work.

Those people will be very good referral sources for you, but don’t go there if you’re not ready for it. Because they tell a story. You’ve got to understand the story, and by all means, keep your damn mouth shut while they’re talking because you’re there to assist and build. They didn’t ask for your opinion.

And if they do directly, you can give them one. But you’ve got to know, just like selling, you’ve got to know when to shut up and listen. Right? Because that will make them very upset, you know what I mean? When they’re there, it’s their show. You’re there to serve.

And I think that’s very important to know your role, especially when you’re selling to a customer. Right? You know, shut up, let ‘em finish their question. You may answer the wrong thing and send yourself right out the door, if that makes sense.

Dennis Oz:
Yeah.

Patrick McAneeny:
But, you know, so, other than brand building, mark everything, understand your territory, keep a clean job site, and market trucks. Then, do whatever social media works best in your area, which you can get from, like, the Remodeling Success Systems and watching shows like yours. They will be very well-educated in relation to that. Every area’s a little different, you know? Thank you. It’s going to be way different in rural Maine than it is in LA, you know?

Dennis Oz:
Yeah, right.

Patrick McAneeny:
And one thing there is, there are a lot of remodelers and builders, and you know, who’s who, who’s doing great, and who’s not. Right? You know?

Dennis Oz:
Yeah.

Patrick McAneeny:
Well, I don’t find myself lacking, you know?

Dennis Oz:
Yeah. The goal here is to create something that all other, I would say, industry peers can tune into, listen, and learn — especially when they’re maybe traveling from point A to B, or maybe they’re just taking their time, maybe during workouts, you know? You never know when the real inspiration is going to hit you when you start learning. You’re just like a dry sponge. That’s why it’s very important to host people like you to bring this quality information to people just like you shared today.

Well, just to wrap up, thank you so much. That was an amazing interview. I’m sure our listeners are also making the most of it. They’re learning a lot of different things from this show. I just wanted to ask my last question: When you look back, I would like to talk about the one lesson that you wish you had learned earlier in your remodeling career, something you think that every remodeler should know. What is that?

Patrick McAneeny:
Well, number one, I think that be patient, don’t borrow money, and you know what? When you think they’re crazy, they probably are. Some of the best jobs you could ever build are the ones you don’t get, you know what I mean? Because they can absolutely destroy you, right?

So, I think that during the interview process, you don’t need them all, just the good jobs, right? And you will make much more money. I sleep like a rock every night, right? I just don’t get stressed, other than the pressure I put on myself. I’m Catholic, and I’m an egomaniac with an inferiority complex, so that’s… you know, constantly striving.

One of our sayings around here is “perfect okay.” We are always striving for that. And, like so many other builders say, if you’re going to miss, miss small. The most important thing, once again, those two lessons are: you know, run from crazy as soon as you can, and just be honest.

It doesn’t matter what the story is. Never tell a lie. If you don’t lie, you don’t have to remember what you said. Because you can look it up. They know when you’re lying. Most people do. You just have to be honest, even if it’s the worst possible news. They say it all the time — bad news early is better than bad news late. Just give them the truth and then make sure you come armed with a solution.

So, those are three important lessons. I could go on probably, but those, you know, don’t lie, make sure not to borrow money, be patient, and focus on a good job. That will pay. And you know what? You can’t worry about every nickel because you’ll never sleep. It’s just not worth it. There’s too much stress. Do a good job, put your budget together, put your margin on there, don’t be scared if they say yes the first time, you blew it. You want to make sure that everybody’s happy, but nobody’s happy during the negotiation.

Yeah, I don’t know. I guess that’s about it. Yeah, that’s four.

Dennis Oz:
That’s even more than one, so that’s great. I know every decade is its own lesson.

Patrick McAneeny:
Yeah, I probably should have read the question.

Dennis Oz:
No, I’m sure every decade has its own learnings, and you’re just sharing it step by step. Thank you so much for sharing this. Well, it was awesome.

Patrick McAneeny:
I really appreciate it, man.

Dennis Oz:
Yeah, definitely. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to ask you, if someone has a follow-up question or someone really interested in learning more, can they go to your website to contact you? What’s the best way to reach out?

Patrick McAneeny:
Sure, just send me an email to, you know… I use my name so I don’t have to remember it. You can reach me at patrick@patcodesignbuild.com or patm@patcodesignbuild.com. You can also catch me through the website or by email. I’m always open to communication, and especially if you’re local, I think if all the boats rise together, everybody’s better off for it.

You know, there’s plenty to go around, and there’s enough for everyone to do a good job. So, try to pay your guys and be nice to your opponent because you never know when you’re going to need help from them, you know? I guess that’s it. That’s what I’ve got.

Dennis Oz:
Thank you so much.

Patrick McAneeny:
Well, whatever you need. Thank you.