Dennis Oz:

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Remodeler Success podcast, the show where you explore the exciting world of remodeling. I’m your host, Dennis Oz, and your guide. I’m your guide to this journey of discovery. Today, I’m especially excited as we have a very special guest with us. I promise that’s going to be a great conversation. You’ll be enlightened. And also you got a lot of inspiration out of it. So whether you’re the first time listener or you’re a long time fan, get ready for an episode that you don’t really want to miss. So let’s get the ball rolling. Sharon, welcome to the show

Sharon Sherman:

Thank you so, so very much. I’m I’m, I love doing this. This is great fun. And I love talking about something that I love and I love the business of kitchen and bath and remodeling. So this is going to be spectacular. Thanks so much for coming.

Dennis Oz:

Could you please introduce yourself?

Sharon Sherman:

Yes. So I’m Sharon Sherman.
Hello, everyone. I am the founder and owner of Thyme and Place Design. It’s spelled T H Y M E, just to throw you a curve. We are located in Northern New Jersey, and I am an interior designer who specializes in kitchen and bath design. And any millwork for your home. So anything that involves beautiful moldings and cabinetry and all of those things that go around it, like this lovely kitchen that I’m sitting in front of right here, that’s, that is my sweet spot and that’s what we do.

Dennis Oz:

Yes.

I love this feature of zoom. So that will be also is a recorded session for our podcast listeners, but this is going to be also on zoom guys. You may be not seeing on the podcast, but we have amazing backgrounds right now. Sharon has a white kitchen. Purposefully, I picked a white kitchen too because that, that is really great to look at in the background.

So that’s what I like. So well Sharon, we have a lot of listeners that are either, they are like starting to you know, build their business or I would say they’re in the business for many, many years, but there are still some questions about these perfect customers. So I just want to ask you about like, how do you paint the picture of your perfect customer?

Who is that? Who is it that your business is really designed to serve the best?

Sharon Sherman:

You know, that’s a really good question. So I had worked for a firm for 20 years before I started my own firm. I realized it was time for me to get my own place and time and place design was born, right? So that’s how I started.

And what I really understood when I left that firm, and I, I’m still on great terms with that firm, but what I started to realize is that I wanted a one on one concierge level relationship with my clients. And funny enough, when I started with that firm, I started as a design assistant and then my first real responsibility was multifamily housing.

So it was at the time long before many of your listeners were even born when here in New Jersey, places like Hoboken were being you know, really built. And I did kitchens and bathrooms and all of these and all of these types of buildings townhouses were also, you know, just, just starting to boom.

And the firm I was working for is getting bigger and bigger, thanks in part to a lot of what I was doing for them. Right. And I, I wanted to get back to the basics of what really, what design is about. And for me, my ideal client was all about that one on one personalized service, beautiful materials, understanding what goes into the design process.

I, I, you know, the stuff that we do is not inexpensive. So it’s somebody who understands the, the. Reason behind cost as far as quality goes and the knowledge that I bring to the table, which is extensive, you know, because of all of my construction background and all of my design background. I mean, I am a professional member of.

I have passed the tests, which when I passed them, we’re still like, 6 parts long. So I bring a wealth of knowledge and ability to the table, and that’s what my clients are looking for.

Dennis Oz:

This is great. Let’s talk about this journey a little bit more. Let’s say how do you make sure your clients have a great time working with you from start to finish?

How do you ensure this process is enjoyable for them?

Sharon Sherman:

Well, they know what they’re getting in May. First of all, there is, you know, I do not lie to my clients. I do not promise anything I can’t deliver and whatever I deliver is above and beyond what I promised. You know, everyone on my team. From my subcontractors to anybody that I’m vendors, we are all committed to the outcome of the project and for it to be the best possible outcome for my clients.

And I like what I do, but I’m also not going to, you know, paint these broad strokes of how fabulous everything’s going to be. I tell my clients construction involves dust. It involves noise. It involves wood. It involves sawdust. It involves. 30 guys in your house every day, you know, with work boots and, you know, tools, but it’s all part of that journey.

Right. And, and I think because I don’t try to paint this really rosy picture, no one comes to me and says, I didn’t know there was going to be somebody banging on the wall at seven o’clock in the morning. We actually don’t start till eight, but you know what I mean? And I think being honest that way and upfront with my clients is super, super important.

We also, you know, I’m a process person. So when they get my letter of agreement, they know exactly what we’re doing and where we’re doing it and how we’re doing it. And everything is pulled together. It’s not haphazardly just said, Oh, we’re just like this room behind us. You know, this is going to be so fabulous when it’s done.

And well, what does that mean? Right. And I think that’s part of the process that anyone in this business, whether you’re new or you’ve been in for a hundred years, you have to have a process. And you have to be able to explain your process. So that’s probably one of the things, a lot of humor, a lot of patience, a lot of understanding.

You know, I always say that for my clients, I am their advisor. I am their, I am their friend. Right. I am their voice of reason, but I am also their vision of what can be. And one of my clients so aptly said this, we were, we were looking at something somewhere and she said, you know, Sharon brings the possibilities of the universe together, but shares it in manageable bites.

And, you know, that I think is. How we work through things and I’ll never say to somebody. Oh, you love purple. I hate purple. You can’t have purple in your house I I think there’s a lot of designers out there who will say it’s my way or the highway and I think that’s that’s Unreasonable, you know, I’m coming into your home.

I am helping create this environment This nurturing environment, which is your shield from the outside world. When you close that door, you know, that is your time capsule. That can be whatever you need it to be. And I work really hard to honor that. Yeah, this is great.

Dennis Oz:

This is amazing. You were talking about the colors and if somebody likes purple, that other one, maybe.

You know, doesn’t really like it, but we have trends in the industry. I’m sure you save a lot of different trends, how do you keep up with those trends?

Sharon Sherman:

Okay. So for me, trends is a four letter word. I have to really be honest with you. You know I think what is important rather than trends, I think a better word is innovations. I am not a trends follower, you know, someone comes to me and says, I want this because this is what’s hot right now.

And I’ll say to them, we’re about to embark on a journey. That’s going to involve several hundred thousand dollars. Do you really want something that is going to maybe be not quite? So it in 6 months, you know, fast fashion is not me. 1 of the greatest compliments. I have that clients pay me is when they’ll say, you know, You did our kitchen 20 years ago and I just had this happen.

You did our kitchen 20 years ago. Someone came into our house because we’re selling our home and they’re like, wow, you just remodeled this. And they’re like, well, no. But that’s what we’re about. We are about creating this timeless luxury and, you know, luxury is something that needs to be affordable, you know, and it may not be affordable in 1 piece, but it is affordable when you look at it over a long time period and a life of a kitchen should be.

Long, I mean, not everybody can afford to do something and 6 months later say, oh, we’re going to tear it all. I have clients like that. I want to change all the countertops. I want to change all the lighting. I have clients who will do that. But for the most part, it’s not a very good use of our, of our materials, if you’re not being a good steward for the environment, and I think those things are super important.

So it’s not like, I’m going to put something that’s going to be in the landfill and look remodeling. 1 of the biggest contributors to landfill in the world is the remodeling industry. And that’s why we work really hard on what we do, even. You know, using, using renewable materials, we recycle as much as possible.

My contractors are amazing the way they go through and separate things. So that is, I’m sorry, but that’s my thought on trends. Now, where do I learn about these innovations? Absolutely. You know, going to trade shows. Cabus ties. I see FF. Okay. So I’m sorry. I’m giving you all these little acronyms. So kitchen and math industry show the international surfaces event the international contemporary furniture fair boutique design, New York, you know, those are just a few of them.

I live. 35 minutes outside of Manhattan on a good day with no traffic. So I have the ability to go to showrooms. I go to museums a couple of weeks ago. I was in the city walking around the New York public library. If you want to go and be inspired, you know, that’s a public place. Anybody can walk in.

And wander through the halls, and it is the most inspirational place that you could ever want to be when you just look at the craftsmanship that goes into it. You know, I do, I read, I listen to podcasts. I read industry materials. I happen to be on the editorial advisory board of an industry magazine.

So that helps me stay up to date with what’s going on. And continue education units, which I’m now a provider for, because I think those things are really important as well.

Dennis Oz:

I really share your thoughts on trends, but you’re absolutely right. We have to keep ourselves updated with the at this technological advancements and also enhancements that we have a sometimes you have a new refrigerator just just really changed the entire design of the kitchen or like some other piece of technology may bring us.

Some, I see some, a lot of like faucets are getting so smart. I mean, there are like faucets that you just bring your hands closer to there just with the sensors and everything. So it’s really interesting. I mean, interesting to like see those kinds of advancements and you’re absolutely right.

 I would like to talk about like a little bit of marketing like an expert like you.

I’m sure that you have with the years of experience you have a lot of word of mouth, you have your fame in the industry, this and that, but there are still a little bit of different strategies outside of word of mouth. what marketing strategies you have found the most effective for prompting your business?

Sharon Sherman:

All of them, you know, there’s no one thing that you can use and I think, you know, diversity, whether it is in our world, whether it is in what we, you know, what we expose ourselves to. But I think diversity in your marketing is as well because not everybody’s going to be in the same place.

You know, I can say I probably don’t spend a lot of time on Tik Tok just because I don’t have the time to learn another, another. Platform and the platforms change so often. So I dabble in it every once in a while, but I realized it’s not for me. And I think that’s an important thing is to decide what is and what isn’t for you.

There’s another very, very well known designer is a very good friend of mine. She’s got like 500 million views. I don’t know. And I’m like, okay, but what is that doing for you? So for me um, Having my work published helps a lot and magazines, you know, I’ve been doing this a long time. People know what my work looks like.

I just had the editor of a magazine yesterday say, send me an email and say, hey, Cher, I’m doing a story on blah, blah, blah. Can you contribute? And I kind of like I did with you, you know, I responded to your, when you were asking me some things about myself. I wrote this whole thing back and she’s like, that’s amazing.

Thank you so much. Do you have images that will go along with it? So that’s one way that I get to advertise my business. You know, editorials where, where publishers and writers and all asked me for my work. I do contribute to publications. So I do write for KBB magazine on occasion. I do write, I’ve had things appear in KBDN.

My insights have been in Forbes. New York Times, the Wall Street Journal. I mean, I send terrible say it all this. Don’t I? But it’s true. But because I’ve been around so long, so people get to see me and get to know me presenting at these conferences, right? Because I have a lot that I really, you know, I want to share.

So sharing my experiences. And my knowledge is another form of advertisement speaking to you right now, believe it or not, it’s advertising. Right? And you invited me, which I think I’m so honored to be invited to these to these things. Practical matters. I do a little Facebook ad every once in a while.

I do some Instagram. I don’t want to say ads, but posting that helps LinkedIn for my business aspect of what I do is a very, very good platform, but you have to really pay attention to what you’re doing. You have to be consistent. You have to be professional and you have to really decide, you know, you asked me about my ideal client and in the different facets of my business, I have different ideal clients and each of them requires a different approach.

I do local magazines. Call me all the time. Do you have work that we can publish? That’s another, another way of doing it.

Dennis Oz:

Great. Well, just like you said, it’s like putting all these eggs in the same basket may not be the smartest move that we can have. So differentiating our marketing strategy could be the best thing that we can do for our marketing and, guys, I know you don’t have like decades of experience, just like Sharon has here, but you don’t be discouraged because it just takes time to just like get your word out over there. Right,

Sharon Sherman:

Sharon? I was, I was not very long in business when I had my first project published, you know, and I just.

I got, you know, I just gave I gave a talk at ties last year about raising your visibility. And it’s really very simple. You just have to be there. You know, our, our world of everything is at our fingertips. And our way of interacting is become with our fingertips. I think we learned very quickly that during covid we need that human interaction, you know, human centric design is extremely important.

So going back out there as much as it’s it’s scary. You need to go out and meet people. You need to. Be involved in chapter meetings. I go into Manhattan for the NKBA Manhattan meetings. I, you know, I’m a member of IDS, the Ontario Design Society, and I go to those meetings. And you get to meet other people, you get to learn things, and that’s how you get exposed to all this.

You learn how to talk to people, and then you’re speaking with somebody, and the next thing you may say is, oh, someone will say, hey, you know what? I have somebody who’s looking for that. And that’s really how it begins. That, that’s really. A key component right out there.

Dennis Oz:

Right. Really? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Let’s talk about a little more about these custom kitchens and baths. So I always ask this one because it’s always create some sort of great, great content for our show. Any cool stories or challenges that you have faced when you’re working with the custom kitchens clients?

Sharon Sherman:

So I know you’re, you’re listeners can’t really see the kitchen that I’m sitting in front of, so my client said to me, I’d love to have some antique beams in my kitchen. What do you think? And she had a low ceiling. So I really, I think if you’re going to do beams, you need to have, you need to have volume and height. And I said, I really, you know, I’m not quite sure I can put beams in here, but how about if we design something into your hood?

She goes, Oh my God, that’d be amazing. So I call my cabinet, my cabinet manufacturer. I’m like, Hey guys what would you say if I told you I wanted to put a beam, I went to pull a hood out of a beam. And I love these guys. These are the most amazing cabinet company ever. And they said, We have some Mark saw that an old barn was being disassembled and he purchased all of the material within that.

And I’m like, really? I said, yeah, let me send you some pictures. And they sent me pictures of these gorgeous beams. I’m like, oh my God, that’s it. And that, you know, that is you know, something that you can do when you’re working in a custom fashion. It’s a little harder if you’re not working with custom cabinets you can still do it with semi custom cabinets.

You just have to be. You have to be smarter about the way you work. I just finished a kosher kitchen. Who knew? You know, there’s certain dietary restrictions that you need to follow. And those are traditions that my client wanted to honor and I needed to honor my client’s wishes. And, you know, by working with my vendors and working with a variety of Different things and coaching from my client, you know, we, we built this beautiful kitchen for her and she is so happy and you know, that’s, that’s another, another facet of it, you know, it’s.

Look, luxury is all about designing for the people are going to use something and what is the perfect solution to whatever the problem is that you have in your space. And that is really what I think luxury and custom design is all about. Because luxury is beyond just a price tag. Luxury is, you know, going to my, like, you’re talking about faucets, right?

Walking to my kitchen, turning that lever on and knowing clean water is coming out of it. That’s a luxury. Luxury that people take it. for granted. But it’s more than that. It’s, it’s how you create a space for a client that is absolutely catered just to them, tuned just to them. That’s really what luxury and custom is all about.

Dennis Oz:

This is great. Because all of a sudden your expertise comes to the play and just creates the whole beautiful design could be a kitchen or bathroom but could create a beautiful design that you already talk about like kosher designs that are also like different I would say dietary

purposes, I would say this is, this is really important. And some people would like to be like open kitchens totally regardless of their dietary restrictions, they could be open kitchens or like they would like to tear down some walls and different types of things.

So it’s that’s why I thank you so much for sharing this one. It’s great to hear those kind of like information from our speakers. So this great to hear. Let’s talk about like the whole journey. I would say if let’s say someone just gives you a call out of blue and you don’t have an idea about who that is, how would you work with them?

How do you qualify? And then the second phase could be understanding their needs, of course. And then you have to execute the project and everything that you have to start and finish. How would you work with your clients on these kind of different steps?

Sharon Sherman:

Oh, you’re going to have to take my course to find out. No more kidding. I do have a course on that though. You know, I wrote an article for KBB magazine and it was titled, how to interview a client. And I also wrote, you know, how a client would interview a designer. So I wrote two different articles and you know, the, yes, it comes from experience, right?

But you can learn how to. Ask questions of anyone who’s calling, calling me or anyone’s calling you. So if a client calls me, hi, how are you? I’m great. How did you find me? Right. Oh, we did an internet search and you popped up. Really? Wow. That’s exciting to know. I pop up on internet searches. Yeah. And they’re like, well, you know, really?

And it ends up that they probably got to me some other way. Or I saw you in a magazine or my friends, you know, you did work for my friends or it could be a hundred. I saw you on Instagram. I thought it was great, but you really have to have some understanding of who your client is and who you want so that you can have those conversations.

Transcribed And the questions that you ask are important, but more important are the responses that you get and you know, sales. So here’s another one. Here’s another one I’m working on, right? Sales is not a four letter word. You know, I think a lot of designers will say, oh, I don’t sell things.

I’m not a sales person. I’m a designer. I’m creating environments. And I’m like, well, if you’re taking money for what you’re doing, you’re selling something. So whether you’re selling yourself or you’re selling your designs or you’re selling your expectees. So, yeah, you’re selling. And, you know, that’s a lost art people, you know, when they think of selling, they think of car salesman and shoe salesman.

And I’m like, well, why, why does it have to have a negative connotation? And and that, so that’s, that’s actually something I am putting together. This is going to be important. How people respond and you have to pracTISE. You can pracTISE just like this, right? In your computer, you have to pracTISE how you would overcome objections.

I know that we are a very high tier price point company. So you need to be able to talk about budgets. You need to be able to help people realize what things cost. A lot of that education. I do through my blog. So when people say they call me and ask me how much it is to do a remodel. I’ll say, you know, your best thing is to read my blog on why bathrooms cost so much to remodel and I go through all the steps.

You don’t understand the difference in cabinetry. I wrote a blog all about good, better and best cabinets. You know, that would probably help illustrate some of these things that I’m talking to you about. So it gives support. When I talk to somebody and I say, you know, an average kitchen remodel for cabinets and countertops installed without the construction, you know, starts at 70, 000, you know, and then we’ll say, well, how much is construction?

I’m like, well, it depends what we’re doing. So, you know, for us, we’re going to be in the one 50 range for an average kitchen. And some people, and I’ve had them yell at me and say, why are you so expensive? How dare you charge so much money? And he just had to take a deep breath and just relax and say, well, I bring a wealth of knowledge.

You can see from my client testimonials what it’s like to work with us. I know what I’m doing. I carry fabulous products. I have top craftsmen. You know, you are going to get the most for your money. We’re going to be with you every step of the way. And they may still yell at me, and then I just have to chalk it up to the fact that it’s just We’re not the right fit to which I would then say, I might not be the best person to deliver the best project for you.

I never tell them that they’re the ones that are wrong because that’s even worse. Right? I’m just not the right fit and be honest with you. I do have people that I can then say, I’m happy to recommend someone to you. Right, because now I’m not just blowing them off and saying, we’re not, we’re not going to work together, but I can say to them, this might suit your purposes.

Dennis Oz:

Better got it. This is great to hear because I was going to ask you why do you think these people will come back to you? Because you are picking them and you know, they are going to become a fan at the end of the project. This is how you approach like your, your referrals, like your, I would say your network, you just say, I know how to say no. Or do you have another reasons that these people are just referring you or like they’re coming back for a new project?

Sharon Sherman:

Well, once you have the experience of working with us, our clients are sad when we leave. You know, we just finished a big project in Livingston and my client was like, I’m afraid you’re never going to come back. And I said, well, there’s more work to be done in your home. Same thing we’re doing. I’m doing a basement, a second bathroom and a family now, family room now for a client where we put an addition on their house.

We did their kitchen. I did their prince their principal bathroom. I did a mud room. I did all this stuff. And then she’s like, wait. Am I ever going to see you again? I said, yes, as soon as you’re ready to do another project. So, you know, we become so intertwined with our clients, which is I don’t mind that, you know, some people want to do work and then leave and be done.

I give a talk of how to manage difficult clients and, and it’s a copyrighted talk and actually see somebody I just noTISEd online may have borrowed some of that for me, but it’s really talking about understanding who your clients are and how to speak with them. And once you guys get on the same wavelength, like that.

My, this one client we’re just finishing, they have a whole lot of presents for one of the guys on the job, who is my old installer, he retired, now he does kind of all of our small stuff. Like, we have presents for Dennis. Is he coming back? I’m like, yes, he will. He’ll come back down and do some, some things for you.

So that’s really why they trust me. I, you know, if I sign a very expensive contract with somebody, I’m trusting them that they’re going to pay me. They’re trusting me that I am going to really take exquisite care of their home and that’s, that’s why our clients come back because they know that they’ve, they’ve developed that bond of trust.

Dennis Oz:

This is a great approach. I think here our listeners are also viewers are learning a lot from these experiences, because we talked about saying NO, not saying YES to everyone. It could be the first step. And then just like Sharon says, it’s like creating this journey.

And also, I think you’re talking about being, keep these people entertained along the way is also important.

Sharon Sherman:

A little bit, but you know, I stay in contact with my clients. I try to set parameters up, you know, like, I’m like, please don’t call me 11 o’clock at night. Don’t text me 11 o’clock at night because I will wake up and look at my phone.

And, you know, once you develop a little bit of respect for each other, I think it, it makes it much easier to, to function together. Look, what are the 2 most powerful emotions there are in the world? Love and fear. Right. If you want to love what you do, you can’t be afraid of not having work because if you’re taking work that you don’t love, it’s, it’s just not going to turn out right for you.

And you’re coming from a place, a non authentic place, a non genuine place. I want to love what I do. I want to love the people that I work with. Not every client that I get is, is perfect. Trust me. They’re not. Some of my clients who are my most challenging clients turn out to be my best advocates. You know, they’re just like all over things.

I post online. That’s my house. She did so well. We love them So you never you never know, but again, you have to treat everybody with respect and care Right because you like what you do. You don’t want to be afraid of calling that client, you know But you have to have processes you have to have an understanding of the job and you have to have confidence in yourself and what you’re doing and what you’re saying because if you’re wishy washy Yeah, sure.

Do you think what happens if we, if we put that there? Well, here’s what’s going to happen, right? Either we’re going to find something in the wall. That’s going to have to get moved. That’s going to cost you money, right? We’re going to sacrifice something not touch that part of the wall. Is that something you can live with?

And that sometimes they’ll say yes. And sometimes they’ll say no. Generally, they’ll say, all right, what’s it going to cost me? And what’s the pros and cons of it? And you have to be able to tell them the pros and cons. Okay. What the steps are going to take to fix something and how long it’s going to take and what the investment is.

Dennis Oz:

Great to know. Let me change the subject a little bit, because Sharon, I see you’re showing up on magazines and you’re getting a lot of awards. First of all does it change all these kinds of awards and those citations, does it change how you approach your designs or how you run your business?

Sharon Sherman:

You know, I am honored any time I win something. So I’m going to give you a really. Interesting story here. I, I entered a design contest and I entered two projects and one project won first place. And I was like, this is great. You know, not what I thought was going to win. The project that I thought was going to win one, nothing.

And I went back and I said, after everything was over, I’m like, did something happen with that entry? And the way this works is that after all said and done, you’re allowed to go in and see what the judges said. And I got four judges that thought that I was the cherry on top of the whipped cream on top of the chocolate frosting on the seven layer cake.

One judge hated. What I did hated the colors. I chose hated the lighting fixtures that I put in never judged the project on the merit of what the transformation of the space was just didn’t like the color blue and that made me realize something and like, you know, you can’t please everybody. You can only please your client.

And if you enter a contest and someone thinks that your work is fabulous and you win that is amazing. But if you don’t win, that doesn’t mean I’m going to change the way I approach any of the projects. Now, when I see my things in print, yeah, I get giggy, giggly. I’m like, Oh my God, look, I got goosebumps.

This is Brooklyn Print Magazine. Yes, of course you like to. We all have, look, we are all designers. We’re needy people, right? Everybody needs affirmation. Everybody needs love. Everybody needs an attagirl or an attaboy every once in a while. And that gives me that little kick that what I am doing in this world is appreciated.

When I get invited back to speak at conferences, because the people that I presented to, Really got a lot out of what I did. That is incredibly meaningful for me. So does that change my business? Yes. Cause I want more of that. You know, I want to leave, leave a legacy. I’ve been doing this. 40 years. 40 years.

And I, I want to create a legacy of something that when I’m not doing this anymore, that people are still benefiting from any of the things that I’ve tried to teach them or any of the things I’ve tried to share with them, that my clients are still loving the places that they’re living in, that they are, they, their homes are their sanctuaries and that they can retreat to those places, clear out all of the stuff that’s gone on all day long and just be.

And that’s that’s what’s most important to me. So so yes, it’s an ego boost, but it also can be an ego destroyer. You know, if your things don’t get published, or if you don’t win that award, because you never know.

Dennis Oz:

You never know. Exactly. You never know. But it’s always great to be Outside, let’s say keeping the word out, having some great publications on magazines and also being speaker on the stage, these are really great.

So I’m so excited to see you on on TISE and also KBIS let’s talk about those shows that are. Great shows. These two will be in Vegas. We have also, a lot of great shows in, in our area, in, in Tri State area, and in Baltimore in Miami, Florida.

First of all, Let’s talk about the difference between the TISE and KBIS. So KBIS is talking to like a similar audience and also TISE as well. I think last year they were at the same time. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Sharon Sherman:

As was Las Vegas Market. It was the most exhausting week of my life.

Dennis Oz:

Right, right. They were at the same time.

One in Mandalay Bay. Another one is in the Convention Center. Let’s talk about the differences first. What can we find in TISE that we cannot be found in KBIS or vice versa? And the second question is going to be a follow up question for me, is why should we attend both of those shows?

Sharon Sherman:

Okay, I’m going to start with KBIS.

KBIS is the giant and TISE is the more manageable. As my client said, you take the universe and bring it down to small bites, right? So KBIS is combined with the International Builder Show. You’ll see everything from kitchen and bath related products through lighting, hardware appliances building materials, garage door openers just it, you name it and that’s what you’re going to find at the kitchen and bath show, you know, they build things, they’re building, building houses, they’re building all kinds of things at that, at that show.

It is, it is like drinking out of a firehose. So you need to be able to plan well to manage how you go to that show. And if you have an agenda, like I really want to learn about, give yourself three things to learn about. I think that’s a really good way to manage the Kitchen and Bath Show. Then wander.

Right? So you have your items that you really want to find, but wander the halls. I would do it kind of in portions because they’re broken up into two different halls. And if something catches your eye, then stop in and see what it is. And then you can always come back to it if it’s something really important.

But I think that’s really what Cape is and the, and the, and the builder show is really about. It’s, it’s everything, everywhere, all at once ties. It’s gonna be a little quieter, a little smaller, a little manager, more manageable. They are changing up what they’re doing. So I think ties is expanding what they’re doing in the past.

It was really Flooring tile and tops. Right? Yeah. So if you’ve never seen a countertop being fabricated, go to ties because they have somebody they’re fabricating countertops. And if you’re a designer and you’re selling countertops, you should understand how they’re made because if you don’t see them, you don’t get it.

I mean, they had some ginormous piece of equipment that goes in and actually cuts the blocks out of a mountain. And they’re explaining, right? Right. Right. Right. Yeah. They also have coverings for flooring. So you’ve got tile. You’ve got vinyl. You’ve got carpet. You’ve got cork. You’ve got everything you can learn about about that.

Then you’ve got their tile section, which is so many different manufacturers and showing installations, right? Showing how their product is installed. Once again, something super important. If you’re a designer and you’re having title installed. You better understand how it goes in because if they run into a problem, everyone’s going to turn and look at you and say, okay, here’s a problem.

It’s going to affect your design. What are we going to do? And if you go, I don’t know you know, you really lose, you lose that authority level and you lose the respect of the subcontractors on the job. If you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s going to be really hard for somebody to listen to you if you’re like, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know.

And I think that is a little bit of a problem with newer designers coming into the field. I’ll leave it to somebody else. And I think that is absolutely a way for you to get into a lot of trouble, but back to the shows. So yes, there are two different animals. I’m glad they’re at two different times because I really am going to be able to spend a lot more time.

Going through ties they have, so I’m speaking at the women’s leadership conference and then I’m speaking at their pulse seminar series. Anytime you go to any, any sort of a convention, I’m going to call it a convention. Always make sure you go and take advantage of the education that’s available because you’re getting people from all over the country and many times all over the world and you really can learn a wealth of information.

And guess what you’re 1 on 1. You’re in the same space. You can ask questions and you can meet the people that are around you, right? You never know you’re going to connect with somebody. So those are the reasons for both of them. I love kitchen and bath. I’ve been doing it since the eighties. I’ve been going to the kitchen about show for many, many, many years.

And I will continue to do that as I will continue to go to ties. I think ties is a great show and it’s getting better.

Dennis Oz:

I’m sure it’s getting better. That’s why we also as a company that we decided to be an exhibitor over there. So you’re also invited to our booth. It’s a shame that I don’t remember our booth the number and stuff.

Sharon Sherman:

Not, not yet, but I will definitely share, just share the name of your booth. What is the product that you’re going to be exhibiting in your booth?

Dennis Oz:

We are, We have a Sharon, we have a We have an app it’s called Super Susan actually it’s, it’s coming from my kitchen designers days that I was struggling a lot about, like I was so lazy, just like a lazy Susan.

And I just, just because I was so lazy, I created a solution for like, people lazy like me who cannot really follow up with the leads. I created automation, we created an automation app. Automation app that really goes after the lead books their appointments on autopilot and brings them like totally hands off.

So Super Season will be there more. I would say something really interesting about that because Super Susan has a mascot and it’s on the logo. And going back to my kitchen designers is at the same time I was making balloon decorations and I was balloon sculpting, I decided to make six feet tall Super Susan mascot out of balloons and you will be seeing it there that she will be hanging out there on our booth.

So it will be like a six feet tall balloon sculpture of a woman, a professional woman with a, with like a, in a suit. So you will, I will put the picture next to it. So you will see it.

Sharon Sherman:

So I’m sure. Now we know how to find your booth, even if you don’t know it.

Dennis Oz:

You don’t know people will be talking, people will be talking about it.

I’m sure about that. So yes, definitely. You’re invited Sharon. I would like to have a really nice conversation over you like over there since we are in New Jersey. But this is on zoom, but I would like to meet you in Vegas. This is what we, but

Sharon Sherman:

I’ll bring them, but, you know, I think software for customer management is extremely for client management and keeping track of them.

It’s another thing that I think we just don’t do enough of. And it’s very difficult. It’s another system, right? So if you can automate the system, more power to you.

Dennis Oz:

Exactly. Exactly. So I’m so excited about TISE. We’re going to do the same thing in KBIS. So let’s see how it goes. And you’re invited just to wrap up.

I have a couple of more questions for you. Actually, one last questions for you. Let’s talk about like these new people who are listening here and they just started their business or they would like to pursue a career in kitchen and bath design. What advice would you give? These people are just starting or just starting phase to trying to learn, trying to create some sort of like source, like informational source.

What would be your two cents for these people?

Sharon Sherman:

I have more than 60 seconds. So this is what I tell the, the, the designers that I coach. Okay. You cannot mail this in, you know, you cannot pass off the responsibility to anybody else because at the end of the day, the clients are hiring you and the clients don’t want to hear. Oh, that’s so and so’s responsibility, or I didn’t know about that, right?

You have to be willing to accept responsibility. Number one. Number two, you need to learn to talk to people. You cannot just text. Even if your clients are young, the same age, right? You can’t just text. You need to be able to have a conversation with people. So that’s another thing. Be technically sound.

You know, you can zhuzh your sofa over a half inch, you cannot zhuzh a cabinet over a half inch. So learn how to measure, work with people to help you learn how to measure, understand the systems that go in, find out, learn about plumbing, learn about electric, learn about how a room is built, learn about what a sill is, learn about what a a lintel is, learn about how walls go up, understand what headers are, learn how to build a plenum system.

I might just have to do that for a project, right? Just don’t say, Oh, I’ll find out from someone else. Learn it because when you’re on the job and something’s going wrong and they open a wall and all of a sudden there’s a main stack in the middle of where you’re going to put your refrigerator, you better be able to help come up with a solution for that.

So, no, know it, learn it. Embrace it. Don’t be afraid of it. And I think that’s probably one of the most important things. That’s where I see more people fail. Well, I’ll just leave that to somebody else. Well, no, I, I think that’s probably the biggest mistake that people make. On the upside, there is no better business to be in than this 1.

I have been in this business since 1982. So they talk about cradle Catholics. I’m a cradle designer. I went to school for interior design. I got into kitchen and bath because I love the technical aspect of it. That’s all I have done my entire life. I mean, I obviously I’m doing other things as well, but it is 1 of the most rewarding.

Interesting fields that you could ever be in. And I would say, stick with it, though, you know, you’re gonna have your ups and downs. I’ve been through 4 economic turns downturns in 40 years. I’m still here. I’m successful. You know, I’m not going anywhere. And you can do this a really long time. Right? I may not be able to carry 2 by force anymore.

Because my back is not what it was was, but. You know, you can be in the design field forever and it’s not 1 of those things where they say, oh, well, you’re older. You don’t know what’s going on. I’m like, oh, yeah, I do know what’s going on. I’ve been there. I’ve done that. And I came out on the other side

Dennis Oz:

Thanks so much for sharing all this great information with us. Just for like, if someone, if in our listeners has some follow up questions, what would be the best way to contact and kind of reach out to you just to let you know that should the information that you share right now will be shared with 10,000 followers. So , is that, is that only LinkedIn or, or Instagram? What would you do or email?

Sharon Sherman:

What? I’m on LinkedIn. I’m Sharon L. Sherman on LinkedIn, as we talked about my L I’m Thyne and place design, but it’s spelled T-H-Y-N-E. So I’m time and place design on Instagram. I am Sherman, which is my last name at time and place design.com.

You can email me. So those are really good ways, but. Just remember T H Y M E, just to be different.

Dennis Oz:

Thank you so much again for all these great information, folks. That was another episode of Remodeler Success Podcast. We’re going to see you next time. Goodbye.

Sharon Sherman:

Thank you.

If you would like to generate more leads, please visit rtamarketing. com to get a copy of the book Remodel Your Digital Marketing, an integrated online marketing guide for kitchen and bath remodelers. This has been another episode of the Remodeler Success Podcast. Thanks for listening.