Dennis Oz: Welcome back to the Remodeler Success Podcast. Today, we’re joined by a real pioneer in the kitchen and bath design, whose innovative approach has really, really redefined the industry standards for over many, many decades. So , I’m talking about, uh, like on 30, 40 years here, she is not only a award winning designer, but also, , I would say the, she’s an author, the author of the kitchen Bible, , guiding both homeowners and professionals too.

So in this episode, we will explore her journey design philosophy and also her insights into the future of design trends. Please welcome Jennifer Gilmer, founder of Jennifer Gilmer Kitchen and Bath.

Jennifer, welcome to the show.

Jennifer Gilmer: Hi, thank you, Dennis. Thanks for having me.

Dennis Oz: You’re welcome. Thank you so much for coming. Jennifer, you have an amazing background in the industry. Could you please share your journey with us a little bit?

Jennifer Gilmer: Well, um, I’ll have to go all the way back to when I was 12 years old.

Actually, when I was 12 years old, I asked my parents. The only thing I wanted for Christmas was a, was a subscription to Architectural Digest. And I couldn’t wait for it to come in the mail. You know, whenever it came, I was so excited. So it goes way back there. Um, I took drafting in high school and I loved it.

And then I decided after a couple years of college, I thought, you know, I, I really liked drafting. So I took a course with my sister and, uh, it was an eight month course. And we had a, we had an exercise on kitchens and I was drawing the kitchen and she said, she was sitting next to me and I said, um, said, I really liked this.

I think I want to do this for a living, but do you think people really do remodel their kitchens? She goes, I guess so. You know, back then growing up in the 60s and 70s, um, parents just are, you know, did what did with what they had, you know, they didn’t think about remodeling anything. So that’s when I decided to go into it.

And that was 1984. I got my first job with the kitchen remodel company. And, um, I just, , it resonated with me. Um, , I’m really good at math. I love like engineering kind of things. I’m also artistic and I, of course, love interior design. So it all just fit really well. And that’s how I started.

Um, you also have to have a lot of other skills, like people skills. Organizational skills. It’s just it’s it’s a great. It’s a great job. And I discovered it’s , Really inspiring because you meet so many cool people you see so many cool houses and you can have fun with their money

Dennis Oz: I’m so grateful that you’re here today well Now that we know what inspired you to enter the world of kitchen and bath design, let me ask you this question. We know that you won numerous awards and you have, uh, and these awards pretty much like that. You’ve been your designs and your achievements recognized nationally.

can you describe your design philosophy and how it’s evolved over the years?

Jennifer Gilmer: Well, my design philosophy is basically really getting to know the client, melding with the client, because they are the ones who drive the design. That’s why none of my designs are the same. I don’t have a signature. The only thing that stands out with our, my kitchen designs, I think, is that they just look great, but they’re not all the same.

There’s some, some designers, you know, interior designers and so forth that you can tell us their work because they pretty much looks the same all the time. But with me, my philosophy is. You know, make it for the client. , have it be something that resonates with them that, um, that they love. And so I’m, I get very involved with the client.

I did actually design it in front of them. I actually use tracing paper and a pencil, which many of the younger generations don’t even use those anymore. Don’t even have the drawing skills, which I think is a real disadvantage. Um, because not only are the, my older clients. But the younger ones too.

They’re like, wow, she’s using a pencil and paper. It’s unbelievable. So, um, so I actually trace out the kitchen right in front of them and talk about, you know, what if we do this? What if they do that? What if we do that? And, and they give me feedback. Sometimes I might go down the wrong road and have to erase or, or, you know.

Or throw away that tracing paper, get another piece of tracing paper. But it’s basically, you know, melding with the client, uh, having help also helping them to get in touch with what they like, a lot of times people will say, I don’t really know what I want, you know, but once you get started and you start hearing what they’re saying and, and, and notice the things that they like, or, or look at the inspiration pictures they bring in.

And you can see sort of a theme and you can help bring out of them what it is that they love. And that’s, that’s a really fun part of it. You know, understanding the client.

Dennis Oz: Yeah, thanks so much for sharing this one. Yeah, this is a golden nugget. Well, you know what? Uh, I just want to ask you this question because you have, different awards there.

Is there any of them that really stands out to you as, you know, really particularly meaningful. And can you tell us a little more about that project?

Jennifer Gilmer: There are two that stand out. Um, one was my own kitchen. Okay. Yeah, when was my own kitchen? So, um, in 2003, we started, we started the planning of remodeling my house in Bethesda, Maryland, and, uh, it turned into a much bigger remodel than I expected.

It included my kitchen and also, Butler pantry as well. And, uh, it really, it came out great. The house was like an old, Sears Roebuck house. And it was, , it was a little bit run down, but, um, we wanted to keep the charm of the old, the older house. So we turned it into, it was like a little bungalow in a way.

So we made it look very Japanese on the outside. And, but the inside was very modern. So it was, and this was back when modern or contemporary kitchens were just starting to, you know, People were just starting to want those in this area because this area has always been very traditional just because there are a lot of old houses.

So I was able to design my own kitchen and very modern contemporary style. And then when it was all done and said and done, I entered it into the NKBA competition and it won first place that year for a large kitchen. So that was wonderful. And I think that was 2007. And then in 2009, I entered a kitchen into the NKBA competition.

You know, design awards and, um, I got the pinnacle of the year award, which is amazing. It’s like the best kitchen of all kitchens that were entered. Wow.

Dennis Oz: It

Jennifer Gilmer: was the first year they had, , the word was money and it was 25, 000. And this was, this was, oh, actually, yeah, that was 2009. So it was just after the downturn.

It was like, oh my God, thank God for that 25, 000. Those are the two that really stand out with me. Yeah,

Dennis Oz: well, uh, I’m sure all our listeners in this channel there right now, they understand they are just tuned into a real goldmine episode, folks, because, you know, uh, listen, folks, if you’re here today with us, getting these awards are not overnight.

You need expertise. It’s, you know, it’s , you have, you have to put the hard work in there. So, uh, that’s why it’s really interesting to hear more about this project from Jennifer. So let’s talk about a little bit of your client interactions. Jennifer, let’s say someone just showed up and said they would like to work with you.

How do you approach? Do you qualify them right away or you just ask some questions to these people? And how do you understand their need and vision?

Jennifer Gilmer: Um, well, times have really changed. We used to when I first opened up in 1997 for the first, I don’t know, 10, 15 years, people would, we’d have a lot of people walking in, uh, Saturdays.

We’re almost like a cocktail party every Saturday. I mean, it was filled up and everybody was happy looking at all the displays. Well, now we get most of our, um, leads on the internet. Um, and so, or phone calls through the internet. And then, uh, so what we do is we talk to them about their project and see if, you know, try to qualify them.

And if they want to set an appointment, after we talk about how we work, um, we ask them that they measure their kitchen. And, you know, a little exercise they have to put a little effort in for us to give them some of our free time. I think you’re talking

Dennis Oz: about rough measurements. Right? Not like the exact measurements, but some sort of an idea that will at least give you some sort of like a direction.

Jennifer Gilmer: Right? Exactly. You know, the length and the width and indicate windows and doors and that kind of thing enough that we can see what the. With the square footages of the space and then so that when we have the meeting, the 1st meeting, they bring that in and I actually draw it out right in front of them.

Sometimes they’ll have plans from architects or interior design. They might already have plans drawn up, but if they don’t, then I’ll draw it right in front of them. And then I’ll talk to them. The 1st question I ask is, you know, what apply? Have you thought about appliances or what appliances do you want to put into your kitchen?

And it’s because that’s important. We have to have the appliances in there. So if we start with that, and I always warn them, I say, you know, this may be what you want, but many times the kitchen will tell me what it needs. So, or what will fit. So, um, we start with that. And then we, I start laying out the kitchen in front of them.

Um, and many times I’ll do something, something in the design that they’re surprised about, like they didn’t realize they could move their refrigerator over there or, you know, that they didn’t realize you could put a hood in front of a window, like an island hood in front of a window. So it’s really fun.

And by the end of it, I actually have the kitchen drawn up and plan view. And then from that, I can get the linear footage of the cabinets, the countertops, and then I ask him what kind of appliance package are they looking for a luxury package, high end or, you know, mid range. So I’ll put together a comprehensive estimate that has the cabinets, countertops, appliances.

I have a miscellaneous for hardware and lighting. Uh, and then I try to estimate the labor and I warn them that, you know, this is just my guess based on other projects. So at the end of that, , I have a , total ballpark estimate. And if they’re happy with that, then the next step is going on with the retainer fee.

Dennis Oz: That’s great. Look folks, you’re also listening. That is a process that is working for many, many years. So, uh, you can, , reverse engineer it. But you shouldn’t really change it a lot. This is the best way for a professional like Jennifer using so if you are also trying to learn a little more how to be more effective in your selling use these techniques and I’m sure this is Gold mine for most of you.

So thank you so much for sharing this one, Jennifer. Here I would like to open a parenthesis for Your book the kitchen Bible. We will continue with the with the design trends and everything But I just wanted to talk about your book a little bit I see that your book is a pretty much like a comprehensive guide for like homeowners and you know We like to really renovate their you know spaces.

What motivated you to write this book?

Jennifer Gilmer: Well, um, it was at a KBIS show I ran into a woman who I found out she’s a writer and I said, you know I’ve always wanted to write a book And so she said, well, I know some people, I know some publishers, maybe I can work on that with you. I said, that would be great.

So she’s written a lot of books, she had the knowledge of how to do that. , so we worked in tandem together. I gave her the information, she put it into, you know, a book form. , I submitted a lot of, uh, kitchen designs that I had, and then I wasn’t that happy to find out she put other people’s designs in that book, but that’s okay.

Dennis Oz: That’s all right.

Jennifer Gilmer: But I would say 75 percent of the, uh, the pictures in the book are, are kitchens that we’ve done here at Jennifer Gilmer Kitchen to Bath. So, um, yeah, it was a great experience. It gave me a lot of exposure and, um, we would give them out to our, my clients and they loved getting them because they could look through and get great ideas.

So, yeah, it was a great experience.

Dennis Oz: So what do you think that the reader is gonna take away from the book? What do you think that is the one thing that your book really helps to the readers?

Jennifer Gilmer: Well, for somebody who hasn’t redone their kitchen or ever done any remodeling in their home, it’s sort of a step by step direction.

It’s, uh, it’s helpful and what to expect. And, um, you know, how, how do I know how to pick the right contractor? What do I look for in a kitchen designer to know they’re gonna, they’re gonna do the best job for me. What about permits and those kinds of things? When do I need them? So, you know, it’s sort of a step by step that help them help some feel more comfortable before they jump into it.

And, um, you know, blindly and not really knowing what to expect.

Dennis Oz: Right? Well, thanks so much for sharing this one. And, um, so just want to talk about the challenges and solutions here. We really love talking about it in our show, because, , there are so many different challenges in our industry because our job is never easy.

Well, it looks easy, but it’s more like the project management than also sales. And also, you know, customer, , relations relationship is also plays an important role here. So many different moving parts here, but I just wanted to talk about your, some of the challanges that you face And, where you have managed to transform this challenge into a successful design solution.

Do you have an example like this?

Jennifer Gilmer: I certainly do. Yes. When I first opened the business, it was we were we hit the ground running and we’re busy right off the bat. We didn’t have really good management set up to manage all the deliveries and manage the service and whatever we had to do. Designers were making mistakes or and that kind of things, or they weren’t getting things ordered on time.

So I realized I had to, I had to organize it. So I took the time out to develop, um, uh, What I call, well, it’s they’re called work requests. So what they do is they help a business keep everything organized. It makes everybody, all of the employees know exactly what they have to do every day. So if you want to, if for instance, you want to have some, uh, appliances priced, you would work, you would write up a work request asking that you get these work requests.

Or I also have a drafting request. So on the drafting request, you have to fill out, you know, what kind of cabinets, what’s the style, what’s the manufacturer and, you know, all the information and turn it into the draftsman. So then he can, you know, he can help you with the drafting. We also have the draftsman, We also fill out a drafting request to have the order checked.

So when he checks the order, he numbers each individual piece in part, each cabinet, each panel, each filler. He checks that all off and, uh, while he’s numbering it to make sure everything’s correct. So I have a double check system there with the ordering and we have a delivery request. Delivery work request form where if something has to be delivered, we have to fill it out and turn it into the manager.

So this way, everybody knows what they have to do every day. It’s not, it’s not willy nilly or, you know, how, what do we have to do today? What’s a priority? Because you have to put in the date that you want to have it done. So, and then they have their log book where they, they write in, you know, their work that they have to do, and they know when they have to get it done with the due date is, oh, and also this is really critical once a week. So we have about four designers and once a week each designer and each designer has a has an assistant designer as well. So the assistant designer and designer meet with the manager once a week for a production meeting where we talk about the projects.

What’s happening? Uh, what part are we missing? Some parts? Did we did we order this? Did we order that? Um, you know, You know, when when’s the contractor going to start the job? So we have these meetings every week. So the manager knows everything that’s going on. She keeps track of everything. Um, and and it also helps the designers and design assistants know what’s been done, what hasn’t been done, what has to get done.

So you leave that meeting knowing exactly what you have to do for the for the whole next week until the next meeting. And that is part Great. It really organizes the company and it shows because you know, we have very, very few mistakes when it comes to cabinet deliveries and everything fitting, uh, timing, we get the timing down right because we’re just so well coordinated.

So that’s really, really critical in this business, as you know.

Dennis Oz: Yeah, exactly. This is a stellar explanation. Thank you so much for bringing that just really breaking it down. And you know, you see folks, We have challenges everywhere, and the most important thing here is to, you know, transform these challenges to the benefits and advantages.

And it was a really great example. Thanks so much for this one, Jennifer. Uh, let me talk about like the past and the future, about the trends. Uh, I always ask this questions to my guest speakers here because some of my speakers really believe that we talk about it. They believe trends are nothing that you really need to worry about and some of the designers really, really take trends into consideration. What do you think about those trends? Do you follow them or you look at your customer and then go from there. What do you think about it?

Jennifer Gilmer: Well, there certainly are trends that happen.

Some of them are good, some not so good. Um, what we try to design every kitchen in a timeless way. So you have to be careful about trends that are too trendy that will, um, that will make the, that will date the kitchen. You know, it’s like, oh, you did that kitchen in, uh, 2010 when that particular countertop pattern was popular, right?

So that’s, so for instance, that’s one example, , I think behind you there , Looks like a marble countertop, but it’s really not. It’s man made. It’s, you know, it’s quartz. So, whenever you have, I always warn my clients, whenever you have anything with a pattern like that, it’s going to date itself.

I mean, look back to the 50s and the boomerang formica countertops, right? You can date that to that period, time period. Well, some things in this day and age that are trendy are also that way. So, but there are other trends that are really great. Like, I think, , like floating shelves, thick floating shelves , to store your dishes and, and, serving dishes and that kind of thing.

That’s great. , and you know, white is, I know white has done a lot. White cabinets are done a lot, but since I’ve been in this business for 40 years, , they’ve always been popular. More than not, but they’ve always been popular. It’s a safe way to go, especially if you’re going to be selling your house in the future.

It’s a safer way to go. , but there are some trends. I think right now the biggest trend is really contemporary kitchens, very simple kitchens, very little pattern. It’s all about, you know, the composition of the design. It’s not about one individual thing, just really being. Cool. Or, or the biggest mistake is having, you know, a beautiful pattern on the countertop and a beautiful pattern on the tile in the

I mean, God, forget it. You can’t do that. Um, so love a simple palette they have now that’s going on with the contemporary. Um, and, uh, luckily , that’s becoming more popular now than it, than it had been in the past. And I’m really enjoying that. , it’s a very simple. Look, but sometimes can be very complicated to design.

Dennis Oz: Right.

Jennifer Gilmer: But it’s really, it’s really wonderful. I enjoy that a lot.

Dennis Oz: Can we say you can’t go wrong with the white kitchens because it’s popular for many, many years? Because I see some realtors, they find it a little risky to when you’re selling the houses, like new, new places.

Let’s say cherry cabinets over there, these homebuyers may lose interest just because of the cabinets are not in the way that they look. Do you think so? What do you think about it? That might be the white cabinets are maybe a little risky way. What do you think about that?

Jennifer Gilmer: Well, white cabinets are safe. And the reason realtors like them is cause they’re so neutral and they’re also bright, you know, bright and sunny sells, kitchen sells, sells houses. So that is true. But , if you do use cherry in a very tasteful way, , in a contemporary fashion, it would never go out of style.

That’s the beauty about contemporary. It really never goes out of style. Right, because , it’s part of the postmodern, , You know, movement, and, it’s just, it’s very pleasing and simple. So, I, you know, but the problem is , if somebody’s looking to buy a house and they don’t like contemporary, they may not want to buy it because it’s contemporary.

But no matter how a kitchen is done, if it’s done well, it’ll sell the house, whether it’s cherry or not cherry, , if it’s done well. It’s just safer to do white, obviously, you know,

Dennis Oz: all right. Thank you so much for sharing this one. I would like to take the conversation to the marketing side since it’s designing and operating and delivering and seeing the results is a part of it, of course, but this is the 50 percent of the battle. Second, 50 percent first 50 percent is bringing the people I’m sure over like so many decades that you have a massive word of mouth network, , in your own area, of course, but,, not a lot of listeners here, they have this much of exposure in their areas and they’re looking for ideas.

, let me ask you, I have two questions that I have a follow up question because my first question is going to be, how do you play the marketing game and then let’s say if you don’t have that massive audience like word of mouth audience, how would you play the marketing game?

Jennifer Gilmer: Well when I first started out in 1997, you know There was no internet.

There was it was Maybe there was, but there was no social media like there is today, obviously. So, I didn’t have a lot of extra money for marketing, but I decided I was going to pay for a full page ad , in the local home and design magazine, and it was a stretch. And I actually hired somebody to handle the ads for me to put them together and everything It was a stretch, but let me tell you it really paid off and you can’t just sign up for just you know one time You really need to do it for over and over again, you know, it’s repetitive advertising is It really does pay off and that really did boost my company quite a bit.

People would walk in with our ad ripped out of the magazine, walk in and say, I just love this kitchen. So I had to come in here. I want you to do my kitchen. Right. And that would happen over and over and over again, back when people were coming into the showroom. So times have changed and people don’t come in the showroom as much.

I still do the advertising in the home and design magazine. It still reaches a lot of people, but, since then, I, guess it was maybe. 10 or 12 years ago, I realized that, Hey, we got to do some social media because that’s really where, you know, where people are looking now. So I hired somebody, I hired a firm, to do our PR on social media.

And that was really great too, we started getting leads , from that. We started, it started generating people, leads and also people going to look at our website and that kind of thing. And so, and that was the stretch as well. , not so much, you know, We’ve been in business for quite a while, but it’s still it’s an addition to your budget that you have to have, but it’s well worth it really.

, also, then I heard this other guy who’s younger. So, the social media people, that group, , they tend, it seemed like, it got a little bit stale. It was, they were older people that were doing it. They weren’t really into the young way of, you know, reaching out to people the younger generation.

And so I. Realized I had to hire somebody younger , who knew , how to be more attractive to that audience that we want. And so I hired somebody younger and then I also had him reaching out to PR to magazines, , whether it’s online or print magazines. He started doing that and, and so from that we, we have interest and we, you know, we’re recently published in a few magazines, not too, , in the last few months.

We’ve had some exposure, including the Washington Post, so , it’s really important. It’s very important to spend the money on it. I mean it feels like it’s a waste of money because you can’t really see. You can’t see the value of what you’re buying right away, but but eventually, you start to notice that it’s very helpful.

Dennis Oz: Exactly. , so many different things that we can always talk about digital marketing here because based on my own experience to marketing , is more like knowing your starts with the knowing your ideal customer avatar. It starts with that because. I am sure that you really know that the demographic at least, most of our listeners already know that I was working in a kitchen showroom that I was designing kitchens. And when I say designing, I don’t really want to say design, right. Looking at your face, but, you know, sorry to say this, but I was kind of designer, let’s say, right. But, , Every time, Jennifer, correct me if I’m wrong, when I meet just the, not the couple, but just the man I was feeling like, man, bring me the boss, because look, who’s the wife.

Yeah. You are gonna sign the papers, man. You know It’s okay. I’m happy to show you whatever we have in our showroom. But listen you are not the one who’s spending most of your time in kitchen. Then we make some couple jokes and we laugh and we were just looking at it in a really serious way. So what do you think about this ideal customer avatar in your company that when you’re selling your kitchens. How do you define these people not by the gender maybe but just by the age Do you believe they are like a younger generation you have more, older generation What do you think about this when you’re playing marketing game?

Jennifer Gilmer: That’s very good question Really I think the majority of our customers are baby boomers still I mean, they’ve gotten to a point where they can afford whatever they want.

Their kids are out, and most, many of them have grandkids even, , so they can do it, they can do more of what they want to do. They’ve always dreamed of having this great kitchen, and they can afford to have a great kitchen. , I do have some younger generation clientele, I find that They don’t quite appreciate what it is we do as much because they come in with the feeling that you know They can google it and figure out how to do it on their own

Dennis Oz: and it’s

Jennifer Gilmer: the feeling that I have and , like they challenge me more when I recommend something They’ll challenge me on it because they think they know better kind of thing.

I mean that’s really generalizing but I find a real difference I find a difference in the two generations. I feel like we don’t really reach out to one particular generation of the other, as far as marketing. I think we just reach out to people who want beautiful kitchens, uh, and unique kitchens. So, we just get our name out there and Hope that we get all kinds of people coming in.

But, I have noticed that a lot of them, when I first started, you know, 40 years ago, what you said was right. Like the wife would be the one that , would know what she wanted in the kitchen and when it , came, signed the contract, signed the contract that I’d meet the husband. That’s the way it used to be.

Really. , it reminds me of when I was getting my CKD way back then. And I was doing, I was studying for it in the first chapter. It said the first. Very first chapter in the first paragraph. It said now make sure that you design a kitchen where there’s enough room for an easy chair Where your husband can come home and sit down and read the paper while you make dinner In there Until close to 2, 000 it was still in there

A lot of the couples that come in, a lot of the guys are the ones who do the cooking and I’m like, wow, you know, the wife is so lucky and the husband does all the cooking. And, uh, I find that, you know, it’s maybe almost even 50, 50 where the guy is more into the kitchen than the gal,

Dennis Oz: you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Gilmer: You know? Yeah, this is

Dennis Oz: amazing.

Jennifer Gilmer: Many times when it comes to paying for the kitchen, it’s the wife that signs the contract and pays the faucet. No, apparently women, yeah. There we

Dennis Oz: go. There we go. Yeah. So, uh, thanks so much for putting it this way because I always feel so sorry when I look at my Look at my career in the kitchen design.

I was just saying why you were doing this that is those are Human beings not gender. So thank you so much for clarifying this for me So i’m going from it. So this is the beauty of our show and we have a lot of like really enjoyed like conversations here Thank you so much for sharing this one jennifer, I will have a couple of maybe one more question to ask you today I’m sure that everybody’s enjoying this conversation as much as we do. One last question.

Then we’re gonna wrap up. Um, but one last question here. your piece of advice, who really would like to start designing kitchens? Let’s say they are really interested and they are really in their early stages in their careers and they would like to learn more. And what do you think would be the best way?

Jennifer Gilmer: That’s a good question. , my answer used to be, , get a job with a big box store and, learn the basics, , and then come in and see if, we’re a good match, but , I’m not sure about that because I’ve hired several people who’ve had no experience whatsoever, but they , really have a pat.

They feel like they have a passion for this and, uh, one in particular. I’m thinking of, she couldn’t even read a tape measure when she started working with me. And now I feel like she out designs me sometimes. It’s been about 12 years, but, , if somebody has, if you have the skills and, the confidence, I think it’s better to find the best kitchen and bath place you can go there and convince them to hire you.

And just, Cry really, really hard to learn it. I mean, it’s a huge, huge learning curve. I mean, the people that we hire, even if they’ve designed kitchens before, they have to be a design assistant for at least three to five years, at least, , before they’re really able to handle the whole thing completely.

, so maybe not waste time , in that big box store, maybe you should just get a job at the best place possible and just, you know, humble yourself and learn, you know, start from the bottom and work your way up. You know, also learn audit, learn AutoCAD, get away from 2020. No 2020,

Dennis Oz: if

Jennifer Gilmer: you really want to design quality kitchens, custom kitchens, use AutoCAD.

Dennis Oz: Let me, let me ask you this follow up question then, what do you think, would you prefer hiring the people with the expertise, or do you prefer hiring the people from the ground up and then train them?

, what do you think is the best approach for you that works for you, for your business?

Jennifer Gilmer: The best approach is to hire somebody and train them the way that we do things. I’ve hired people that have had maybe five years experience somewhere else, and when they come here, they want to do things the way they learned there.

Which doesn’t really meld with how we do things. I mean, it’s so I mean, and each design firm, I think, has their own way of doing things as far as how they put things together and the engineering of things. And so I like hiring somebody who doesn’t have that ingrained in them yet. So that we can ingrain it our way and just do it our way.

Yeah, and then, then they become a wonderful, a great fit and we, and that way I know that our, our designs are consistent. I mean, they’re all original and they’re all beautiful in their own unique way, but they’re also consistent in how they’re put together and engineered. So our installers, uh, it’s easier for them to install it because they know how we do things.

So, yeah, it’s better. I think it’s better to hire somebody without much experience or maybe even just out of, uh, interior design school where they took a, like a minor in kitchen and bath design. That’s probably the best person to hire.

Dennis Oz: Great. Thank you so much for sharing this nugget because I also believe that, it’s important to know how to run a task, but it’s always important folks, because the things that you have done in the past, maybe Perform a little bit different in your company that you’re working together. That may not be the best way Maybe you will bring your own ideas there.

Then you’re gonna create a real good spark over there like new ideas. It’s been preferred that you also follow the guidelines of the companies that you are working for so Just like Jennifer said maybe a big box store could be You And maybe an idea to kind of learn ins and outs.

So we are getting a lot of questions about it. That’s why I would like to ask you, and I’m really grateful to hear the answer from a great source. So thank you so much for this one, Jennifer. Well, uh, that was an amazing session and,, I really enjoyed the conversation today.

If anyone from our listeners has any kind of a follow up question, what’s the best way to reach out to you? Um,

Jennifer Gilmer: my email at work is fine.

Dennis Oz: Sure. I don’t think that you’re going to share your personal cell phone number to 10, 000 people, but is that your email or is that your website?

What do you think? Is that your email?

Jennifer Gilmer: It’s my first initial last name. So jgilmar@gilmarkitchens.com. And we’re actually, we’re looking for a designer and we’re always looking for assistant designers.

So, hey, if you’re looking for a job, contact us in the D. C. Area.

Dennis Oz: There we go. There we go. Jennifer, thank you so much for bringing all this information like your expertise, to this session today. So grateful and, I genuinely want to thank you one more time.

Jennifer Gilmer: Thank you. Thank you. It’s a pleasure. And I’m honored that you, uh, that you have me on your show. Thank you so much.

Dennis Oz: You’re welcome. And folks, that was another episode of the Remodeler success podcast. And we’re going to see you next time. Goodbye.

Jennifer Gilmer: Bye.