Dennis Oz:
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Remodeler Success podcast, where we dive into the nuts and bolts of kitchen and bathroom remodeling.

And I’m your host, Denis Oz. Today, we are chatting with a seasoned pro in architectural design. He’s got a sharp eye for detail and a track record of crafting practical spaces that people love. We got Adam Gibson with us. Hey, Adam. Exactly. Have you with us today? 

Adam:
Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Dennis Oz:
Well, you have so many experiences in so many different areas in the industry.

But can you tell us about your journey from being a photographer to establishing an award winning company? How does your, I would say your photography experience affected your design background? How did you combine them in the same melting pot? 

Adam:
Actually, it’s kind of the opposite. I started with a design build firm and was hiring photographers, architecture.

Oh, I was hiring photographers who were really great in their field, but they weren’t representing the division that we had. So I went in, took lots and lots of classes and kind of had an architectural photography guru. And that’s how I became an architectural photographer. But I started as a designer.

And I continue to be a designer. 

Dennis Oz:
You said there is no one can help me with my photographs. So you said, I’m going to fix my own problem. Well, kind 

Adam:

of, uh, I was in Nashville, Tennessee for a long time and, and architectural photography, I just wasn’t familiar with it. So I was hiring amazing, let’s say portrait or wedding photographers or product photographers.

And they just weren’t, they weren’t, um, describing the vision that we had for our projects. And that’s. When I realized, oh, there’s this whole other kind of photography, some people confuse it with real estate photography, which is not at all the same. There are similarities, but architectural photography is, is the, the essence of it is trying to capture the designer’s vision without all the distractions that you would normally see.

From a, just a standard photographer or a real estate photographer, 

Dennis Oz:
I was looking at your work. It’s amazing. I mean, especially the natural light that you use. Your focus on especially part of natural light is when you are creating spaces with that environment is really amazing.

Could you share some specific design principles or techniques that you apply to achieve this in your project with the using natural light? And what do you look at and how do you apply to this in your architectural processes? 

Adam:

Well, it’s all about the sun and where the sun is. So trying to get the, I actually, our tagline is we create an infusion of natural light.

Adam:

And I really do prefer natural light. I mean, I do pretty, uh, detailed lighting plans. You know, artificial lights, but we, we want to start with natural light. So it could be using sun tunnels or solitudes to get light from above. It could be transom windows where maybe there wouldn’t normally be a window.

You create a low wall and put a transom window or clerestory windows where a roof butts into a wall and you can have light. Natural light above, but any way possible, as long as the budget allows, there’s going to be daylight coming in. That’s natural. 

Dennis Oz:
That’s great. That’s amazing. So I’m sure that’s giving a lot of influence to our listeners over here. 

Adam:

Let me just ask, are these listeners all over the world?

Yes it’s amazing. Adam. I started the show in the United States and I was hoping to serve Canada. But right now people are sending us thank you messages from Germany.I would expect something from UK or Australia, but getting a lot of thank you messages from Germany and also some part of France. It’s, it’s amazing. So all the things that we share today is just talking to an international audience, which is amazing, right? 

Adam:

Yeah, that’s great. But the reason I asked was because if you’re.

Like I, we, we want to have as much south facing light as possible on in this hemisphere. But if I’m doing a project down under, it’s going to be north facing light. So I just wanted to make sure that’s clear. 

Dennis Oz:

There you go, folks. You see how detailed this guy is. I mean, you, when you are, this geography is even, it’s even important when you are shaping your project.

Dennis Oz:
So that comes to a place where your experience I’m sure you got you have the education and you got your certifications. So I’m going to talk about these certifications a little bit more because our listeners in the United States and Canada, they got so many different certifications from different organizations and institutions. We know that you worked as a certified master kitchen and bath designer, certified living in place professional and also aging in place specialist. So how do these certifications impact the way that you design and consult on projects? 

Adam:

Well, I have to start out by saying none of those things make you a more creative designer.

Adam:
It’s all about safety and practicality, really all of those things. So I guess I’ve been as a kitchen and bath designer for over 20 years. And when I got the. I started out as just a certified kitchen designer, and then this is with NKBA and the National Kitchen and Bath Association. And then there was the bath thing.
Now, now it’s combined. You, you would take an exam for kitchen and bath designer. And then after you have a certain amount of experience and, uh, have been published in a number of places, and [00:06:00] there are some other criteria, you are able to sit. For the master and there aren’t that many people who, who go that route.

I think it’s well worth it because. There’s so much involved in a kitchen, really a bathroom is far more, there’s so many safety concerns and, uh, it’s been invaluable to me, the, the NKBA’s education, also as important in a whole different way is the Living in Place Institute certification, which is called a Certified Living in Place professional. That’s right. Too many acronyms, I don’t put these things on my business card. It’s just too many letters. Um, that’s really fascinating because. Although aging in place is a very important, it’s a very important discipline to understand, especially with the amount of baby boomers who are retiring daily.

So if, if you’re not, if you’re in this business and you’re not educating yourself on how to serve that clientele, you’re missing out and you certainly will [00:07:00] be missing out big time, but I really appreciate the living in place designation because it doesn’t just cover aging in place. It’s for people with all sorts of needs, including guests.

Like, because everyone has guests and at some point you’re going to have one who’s got some sort of impairment. So I find that that was really the best education I’ve gotten. 

Dennis Oz:
That’s amazing. I mean, some of the business owners, I’m asking their ideal customer avatar, and they are talking about the age group around, I would say 50 and 50 plus, empty nesters. I like that word as well because it’s, it’s another common term, not official marketing term, but when we say aging in place, yes it’s a special segment and their requests are different.

What I realized also, Adam, correct me if I’m wrong, but the people after graduating kids from school and let them even get married their next kitchen, it’s not budget focused. They are looking for to improve the quality of their lives and their budget comes as the second thing to look at and they are looking at more like how to improve the quality of their life in their living spaces.

Do you agree with that? What do you think? Yeah, 

Adam:

absolutely. And, and, uh, typically the, the older demographic has more disposable income. So we can get a little more creative. They, they’re more concentrated on the things they’ve always wanted versus the things that the one thing that they can afford. 

Right. let’s talk about a little bit of the design principles that you follow. When you look at your projects, you have different styles and these styles has various range from traditional to even ultra contemporary, I’m sure that you have some common elements when you are looking at your present or principles that you believe make a great design, regardless of the style.

What are those? 

Adam:

Well, yeah, of course they all depend on the project and, and the style, as far Contemporary versus traditional versus everything in between. That really is up to the client. I mean, I have my personal preferences, but I am designing for them. I’m not going to live in that house. They are. So I want to make sure that it fits them, fits their personality.

Now, of course, everything that we design is in 3D. So they’re seeing and feeling what the space is going to look like inside and outside well, before we even start the actual construction documents. So, so that gives us a lot of leeway if, if they’re not, if they’re afraid of contemporary or modern architecture because they feel it’s too cold, I can show them, you know, it can be modern.

You can have clean lines and minimalism and still have lots of warmth. So we start there. And again, the first thing is as much natural light as possible, no matter what. Everybody wants light. I mean, it’s, and it’s, it’s also important for health, especially during these. Northern winters, where we have the seasonal affective disorder called SAD, appropriately, and it does really affect people.

So natural light’s a big thing. I also like to make things feel spacious, even if they’re not. So there are ways to create a feeling of spaciousness by not overcrowding. So hallways are going to probably be a little wider on my designs than other people. And that’s not just. Because of the feeling it’s because if someone needs to walk down that hallway and around the corner in a wheelchair or a walker or the 16 year old who football player who just broke their leg, they’re not going to have issues.

Same with. showers. Like I don’t, there’s just not a curb in any shower we design. You can roll right in there and it’s, and there’s going to be at least one grab bar that will look beautiful and look like a towel bar, but there’s going to be something that someone can hold onto. And as they fall, it’s not going to rip out of the wall like happened with my daughter a couple of years ago.

And she didn’t get hurt, but she did pull the thing out of the wall. Promptly realize whoops. We didn’t, uh, we didn’t fix that one. So, uh, that’s, that’s one principle, I think really take first priority. So, because I, um, I recently did a really tiny kitchen and, uh, not a tiny house, not a literal tiny house, but a very small house. And by just removing one wall and keeping a little bit of openness. It really feels spacious. In fact, it won an award because it didn’t feel small and it was beautiful too.

And I can’t take all the credit because I really do collaborate. I like to collaborate with an interior designer occasionally or certainly with the client. So it’s. So it’s got to be a collaborative process. 

Dennis Oz:

My next question actually is going to be about this one because there should be a balance between the functionality and that cutting edge and unique design concepts.

Could you share some examples of the projects where you had to balance these two? You have to balance the functionality. Something could be real functional, cannot look really unique, or you create something really unique, but cannot be really functional. How do you achieve this balance? 

Every project’s different.

Adam:
I recently did one for a single man, not an old man at all, but he had this disease that prevented him from walking, but he could, he could stand if he could pull himself up and then he could lean against something and remain standing as long as he had something to hold on to. And, and he lived in a loft apartment.

So it was all one level and so what we did was we did a kitchen and enlarge the spaces so he could roll his. Desk chair, and he refused to use a wheelchair. He would just roll around in a desk chair. That was just the stigma of it bothered him, which I alone thought was hilarious. But we created, uh, kind of a French country style kitchen where we had grab bars, or I don’t know really what you call them, but they’re bars attached to the tops of the fronts of the cabinets throughout the entire kitchen.

And they’re beautiful. Brat, uh, it was some sort of brushed gold that matched the hardware on the cabinets. So he could roll up to it, pull himself up, stand, lean against something, he loved to cook, so, and he could, and he, we made sure his induction cooktop was flush with the counter, so he could just slide things on and off, and we also had a seating bar on the, on the peninsula of this kitchen, and we put a bar on top of the countertop, about 16 inches in, so he could roll up to that, and pull himself up if he wanted to.

Thank you. Or just remain in his chair or transfer himself to a barstool, counterstool. And it, that part was a little odd to see this bar glued to the top of the counter. But it actually fit because it matched all the rest of the things and you had another bar in another part of the room that we sort of married the two designs together.

So that’s one way to make it not look institutional. Like when I said earlier that I, I put grab bars in every bathroom. They’re not institutional looking, they look, they’re decorative, they’re beautiful, they match everything, they match the hardware. Uh, so, that’s one of the things that we really concentrate on.

Dennis Oz:
That’s amazing, you can look still stylish with the functionality. I’m sure there are a lot of listeners here, they are trying to create ADA compliant bathrooms and those kind of stuff. But they may have a kind of roadblocks when they are trying to make it unique. So…

This is the way that you have to look at folks. You can think about the functionality with style. So this is going to be a key for you to tackle this problem. Adam, we know that you are the president of a National Kitchen and Bath Association, Indiana chapter. You have a significant involvement in the organization in our association.

How has this role allowed you to contribute to the kitchen and bath design community? 

Adam:
Actually more than being part of the local chapter, which is great because we provide CEUs year round and we have great speakers and it’s a good group of people. But I was also part of the subject matter experts for the new guidelines. this is the kitchen and bath guidelines and it was a group of 10 of us from around North America and we created these new guidelines and that was fascinating because we included lots of living in place standards.

And it had been a just basically a brochure before now it’s more like a code book and they are guidelines. They’re not mandatory requirements, but it really is helpful. So if anyone’s designing kitchens and bass and doesn’t have that book, I highly recommend it because it gives very clear guidelines on, let’s say, a landing area between a stove and a refrigerator.

Like, you’ll want to know how much space what’s the depth? What should it be? And and then we covered everything that. Anyone in a wheelchair or anyone who’s got mobility challenges also falls into that. 

Dennis Oz:
Is this book accessible with the National Kitchen and Bath Association members or is that your chapter specific document? Oh, no, this is 

Adam:

the NKBA document. Oh, okay. Okay. 

Dennis

Oz: It’s over there. That’s perfect. 

Adam:

Go to the NKBA website and, uh, just order it. I actually, I think you could get it 

Dennis Oz:

on Amazon. Okay. It’s on Amazon. Just wanted to, just wanted to, uh, It’s called 

Adam:

the Kitchen and Bath Planning Guidelines 4th Edition. 

Dennis Oz:

4th Edition, folks.You heard that right. So, uh, you can go to Amazon or if you don’t see it on Amazon, you can always go to NKBA. org. And just put that on the search bar. This is serious work, that’s amazing. So one more question about the NKBA.Why should our kitchen and bath dealers or countertop manufacturers could be a part of it? They go to NKBA and they sign up for their local chapter. What are the benefits for them over 

there? 

Adam:
Well, there’s 70 chapters throughout North America. Everyone’s different. I’ve been to many of them because I, I speak at a lot of the chapters on architectural photography.

So I’ve probably been to about 20 different chapters. No 2 have been the same. Some have had 100 people at a chapter meeting. Some have had 7. It’s completely different. But what they do have in common is they bring education to their members. So for the certified members, that’s critical because we need a certain amount of hours.

To maintain the certification. For vendors it’s really interesting because they are meeting their clientele at these meetings. So it’s oftentimes it’s about half vendors or manufacturers and then the other half designers. Aside from the educational portion, you’re rubbing shoulders with your peers. That can never hurt.

I obviously there are competitors in there at those things. It’s neutral ground at those meetings where we’re there to support each other. We’re not, there’s no backstabbing. It’s really a nice way to network. And I have met now that I’ve been part of it for so long, I’ve got good friends. But just having resources to bounce ideas off of, it’s, it’s really been great.

Dennis Oz:
this is really important. Yes, sometimes you meet competitors in a meeting, but if you are in that mastermind group, folks, it’s, it’s not your competitor anymore because they want you to win too. You want them to win as well . So you’re not competing to each other. The competitor is the label.

But when you start sharing, they are not your competitor anymore. Yes, you will be competing at a certain level. But as soon as you are putting more and more in you, you’re just improving your mindset and if you’re increasing your your expert level.

So this is, this is the main thing. Trust us. There are a lot more values in your local chapters when you mastermind with the correct people, just like Adam said. If you haven’t done so, just go to nkba. org, become a member of the association, and then try to join your local chapter where you find the most value and join us on KBIS. KBIS is coming, Adam. 

Adam:
KBIS is an amazing trade show. And, uh, besides the gazillion booths that you That’s so big, you don’t have time to see them all the educational part of it.

Adam:

They call it’s called voices from the industry where they’ll probably be. I’m guessing here. 300 different speakers on tons of different subjects. I’ll be 1 of them on architectural photography. And I’ve, I’ve presented on, uh, I call it. Uh, designing the healthy home and we don’t mean emotionally a healthy home 

Dennis Oz:

will be there.I’m really excited about it. Seriously. That will be amazing. And do you have the date, actual date, the date that you will speak on stage or is that going to be decided maybe a little later? 

Adam:

I will be presenting on architectural photography and it’s really maximizing your vision. Making magazine worthy images, and it’s really more about hiring the right photographer, but I also do speak a lot on technical stuff.

So people who want to try it on their own are able to it is on February 28th. At 1045 pacific standard time. So that’s it. That’s 

Dennis Oz:
a Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday. So it’s pacific time because folks will be in Las Vegas. And one more thing here. Adam is not going to talk about how to become a photographer.

Maybe you would like to, but also you can. Just interview your next photographer using the techniques that Adam is going to share because I’m sure most of you guys are putting a lot of hats and you are the marketer, you are the operational guy as a business owner. But this one, this session will give you ability to pick the correct photographer and what to ask them, what to expect from them.

Is that so? 

Adam:
That’s exactly right. Yes. Plus, if you want to try it yourself, well, I’ll get some, some real basic information. Okay, that’s 

Dennis Oz:

perfect. 

Adam:
This is great. What’s funny about that is I, I spoke, I’ve been presenting on architectural photography for years now. And what I finally had to get through my thick head was that 95 percent of the listeners said, that’s just too much for me.

What if I just like, how do I just find the person who can do it? So I don’t have to do all that stuff that you just talked about that went over my head. So I’ve, I’ve modified it. So, yeah. It can be more geared for that. 

Dennis Oz:
I’m sure it’s going to be amazing. I’m sure it’s going to be really interesting. We’ll be there.We’ll be there for sure. You’re all invited, folks. You’re just invited to the NKBA, Kitchen and Bath Industry Show, KBIS. That’ll be held on Las Vegas Convention Center, at the end of February between 27th and 29th, uh, is that so Adam? Yeah, 27th and 29th, so we’ll be there. 

Adam:
In order to get into the seminars that are called Voices from the Industry, you have to pay for that. That’s not part of the trade show price. It’s not cheap, but if you’re into learning more from everything from marketing to how to put a shower stall together.

I mean, it is so comprehensive. It’s well worth the money. And 

Dennis Oz:
we are talking about the best people in the industry, folks. You can’t find any other place in the United States of America. In whole globe. I’m telling you this in the kitchen and bath industry that you cannot meet that much of experts.

So many different fields, we are talking about architectural photography, if you really want to learn more about different things NKBA will be there for you. To bring you the correct expert on the questions that you might have about your expertise.

Let’s talk about the construction and design for well being besidesyour residential clients that you consult with builders and developers to create safe and healthy environments. What are the some of the key considerations and the best practices for achieving in this construction and design?

How do you work with them? What’s the difference between working with them when you’re looking at the commercial and residential designs? Some of the key differences. How do you assess that? 

Adam:
I don’t do very much commercial. Um, when I do it’s that’s really all about safety, um, fire safety, not overcrowding a space, proper lighting.

Uh, that’s completely different. And I really love commercial stuff because a lot of it can be very modern. And I just do happen to love modern. Like, I don’t know why so many designers love modern. Maybe we just like the minimalism, like, we like, uh, our bedside table to be clear of debris. Yeah. Like, why put a lamp on if you can just hang something above more space?

But, uh, I digress. The, the key elements, I think, for. When I, when I am consulting with builders or developers is to make sure that they have, that they’re getting something in 3d, that they are able to market their idea, whether it’s theirs or a collaboration of theirs and mine to their clients and sell as much as possible.

And we’re really, we’re in this to make money. That’s the bottom line, right? We want to make as much money as we can while still very much enjoying what we do. So any way I can make, make that happen, of course, I want to do that. And that’s what all the builders and developers are asking for the same thing.

How can we sell? Right. I don’t know if that answered your question, but that kind of is what it 

Dennis Oz:

is. No, that exactly answers the questions, of course, because that gives a really like a creative edge about the aspect that we have to look at when we are trying to work with the residential projects are like bread and butter.

Dennis Oz:

But when you go to commercial side. Yes, our profit margin could be a little less than the compared to the residential projects, but it’s there for you folks. You can just not look only the homeowner vertical or like you’re going after the people who have their own space, but there are A lot more commercial things happening.The apartments building happening in your area around you. So try to go after these people as well. Speaking of which, let’s go to the marketing talk because I really want to learn more about your how you market and what’s your marketing strategy? Because now you have a great expertise on photography.

I’m sure you blend this photography into your marketing strategies and how do you utilize it? How do you utilize your photography expertise in your marketing and also how do you play the marketing game overall? 

Adam:
I do a lot less marketing than I used to because I don’t need to as much.

Adam:

So I don’t, I don’t spend as much. I have found, and this is tried and true for generations that your past clients are your best advertisers. So always going back any way that I can get my foot in the door to a past client. Even if it’s years down the road and say, Hey, I’m going to be in your neighborhood.

I would love to see how the project’s held up. Many times they say, I’m so glad you’re here because now I’m thinking about doing such and such. I mean that, I didn’t make that up. That’s, that’s what people do. So I find that spending a little bit of money on past clients just to remind them we’re around is really helpful.So that’s, that’s one. 

Dennis Oz:
Are you using, are you using postcards or sending postcards or like Christmas gifts? Can you give us a little more detail about that? 

Adam:
No, I found that an email and a phone call are are better. I do post on social media on five or six different platforms at least five times a week.

Adam:

And so I use an aggregator program. I do it myself too. I, I decided not to hire a company. Because I have, I have a little bit easier because I have such a backlog of photography, so it’s easy for me. I have this whole library that I just do it all online. And once a week, I schedule 5 posts on Facebook, Pinterest.

LinkedIn, Instagram, Tik Tok, I’m missing, oh, Twitter, yeah, Twitter, yes, I can’t tell you if I’m getting business from that I get comments like I follow you on social media and I do have clients who say I had been following you for a couple of years. I don’t know if that’s actually generating the business or it’s just keeping me top of mind, but any way that I can stay top of mind is worth it.

I did for a long time advertise on house. com and for the first few years, it really generated a lot of business, but they have so saturated the market. I haven’t found it to be worthwhile lately in my market. 

Dennis Oz:

Great. thanks so much for that., this is going to be my last question that we’re going to wrap up.I would like to talk about a little bit of your career advice because there are a lot of people here. They are sometimes just starting. They are just building there. They’re just a startup. They’re just building it and they would like to reach the quality information.Yes internet is giving us a bunch of like bunch of information here, but if we cannot go to the correct source, it might not really benefit us in the correct way. So we have to go to the correct source and learn from the correct people or correct source of resources, right? As someone who had a really diverse and successful career, what advice would you give to these architects or designers looking to make a meaningful impact in their 

Adam:
fields? Well, the number one is going to be listen, listen, listen, listen to your client. That is what it’s all about. People want to feel heard. They want to be heard. They want to feel like you’re really understanding their needs. So that’s number one. If you do that, you’re already, you already got the job unless they just don’t have the money because that’s what I’ve found people really care about.

They want. They want to bring you in. They know that you’re going to be disrupting their lives considerably. Uh, I’m not a remodeler. I was a remodeler though. I did have a design build from now. I just designed, but I have really disrupted a lot of people. And so going in and being truthful and saying this, this is what you can expect.

This is kind of the curve. Emotionally that you’re going to go through and always listening and mirroring their questions or their, their ideas so they understand that you have heard them and that you’re going to do your best to meet their needs. So that’s number 1 after that is being honest, keeping your word, keeping your commitments, being [00:30:00] extremely communicative, no matter how difficult it is and following through, got to follow through, got to keep your word.

If, and if you do all that and you’re not creative and you don’t do like come up with unique designs, you’re probably still going to do okay. If you’re creative, you’ll do even better. If you have all those first things, like basically integrity, and you’re not creative, but you can partner with someone who is, and you can be the, the, uh, operations person, that’s a great partnership.

But you have to be able to trust the person, the people you’re working with, and, but the people who hire you have to be able to trust you. And of course, everyone thinks they’re honest, including people who are not. So it might take a little self reflection and it might take a little bit of change to make sure that you are always being open and communicative with your clients.

Cause they’ll see it in a minute. If you’re not,

Dennis Oz:
that’s amazing. Thanks so much for all these, the expertise that you share in different fields and different principles on it. Adam, thank you so much for joining us. If someone has a follow up question, what’s the best way to reach out to you? Is that LinkedIn, or would you like to share a website or how would you, that would be the professionals.Uh, like maybe they have a kind of a, maybe a, something that they really want to learn a little more about you, maybe your, your event on KBIS. So what’s the best way to reach out to 

Adam:
you? Yeah, I won’t, since I now found out that you have 10, 000 subscribers, I’m not going to put my email up here.

Dennis Oz: Yeah, not that one, please. 

Adam:
My website is adamgibson. com and there’s a contact form and I always answer, always, every single time, adamgibson. com. That’s my design site. If people are looking for architectural photography ideas or, or advice, it’s adamgibsonphoto. com. So, two different sites, two different businesses, although they’re integrated.

It’s Adam Gibson Design, Adam Gibson Photo, both have contact forms, and I always, I always answer them, and I really do, don’t mind giving out advice. I’m okay with that, as long as there’s time. If 10, 000 of your people contact me, it might take a little while. 

Dennis Oz:
No, we’ll try to avoid that at all cost. So, well, thank you so much for joining us today.

That was great to have you on our show, thank you so much for this one.

And yes, folks, that was another episode of remodel success podcast. And we’re going to see you next time. Goodbye. Bye. 

Adam:
Thanks for having me. Thank you.

If you would like to generate more leads, please visit rtamarketing. com to get a copy of the book Remodel Your Digital Marketing, an integrated online marketing guide for kitchen and bath remodelers. This has been another episode of the Remodeler Success Podcast. Thanks for listening.